The "I don't understand why people DON'T like this band" thread
- Thread starter Ender Rises
- Start date
I will? Oh please, next time Gorgoroth's name is mentioned count how many people fire back, unprovoked, "Gorgoroth aren't true black metal, they are poseurs for pretending to be." It isn't even comparable to the amount of times versus Dimmu Borgir, that much should be blatantly obvious.
And yes, "True Norwegian Black Metal" doesn't exist anymore, however it's just a silly title that people took too seriously to begin with, believing that their music was elite and look was we've ended up with. And just because a band uses it doesn't mean its necessarily a marketing gimmick/ploy.
Carcassian
Utopian Blaster
skeptik
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Uh...I'm not saying they're not BLACK METAL, I'm saying that they are not "True Norwegian Black Metal," at least not today. This is not a competition between Dimmu Borgir and Gorgoroth anyway, so why you turned it into that I don't know.
"True Norwegian Black Metal" is not "just a silly title" actually. It is the embodiment of the height of the Norwegian Black Metal movement in Norway in the early 90s, one of the most renowned and creative musical movements that Metal has ever seen. These works were spawned from certain situational elements, and because those elements are no longer in place, it is impossible to recapture the "True" Black Metal of Norway from the early 90s.
Can you show me one single example in which "Norwegian Black Metal" is not used as a marketing ploy in today's age? You can't deny that hearkening back to the heyday of the second wave is not a frequently used tool to sell records today. I see album descriptions in distros all the time citing Darkthrone, Burzum, and Mayhem and "Norwegian" and "Norse" whether the description is even aurally plausible or not.
I was referring to Gorgoroth proclaiming to be true black metal, not black metal in general, you mis-read that. And "at least not today" - explain that. Are you implying that Gorgoroth was once true black metal? The reason why I brought that up should be clear, both Dimmu Borgir and Gorgoroth have used the term many times in the past, and it's something that Gorgoroth stands by and many people believed they once played true black metal but you won’t hear people say “Gorgoroth are poseurs because they aren’t true black metal” nearly as much as you would with Dimmu Borgir, regarding both their music today or ten years ago.
And yes, I know all about the Norwegian scene but it really is a silly title or at least at how it was abused, even by those bands themselves, it was. It isn’t just a term used to describe the Norwegian black metal movement, those bands believed that their music better than other black metal bands who were spawned in reaction to that movement. Rightfully so I don’t blame them, but that doesn’t necessarily mean their music was any more qualified or valued as the term implied or was used as.
And of course with distributions and record companies are going to market the album in that way, that is their job - to sell the bands record. But should that reflect poorly on the band, if people are helping them sell records by contractual agreement? You can talk about the spirit of black metal or the essence or whatever, but many bands honestly believe they are making something truly artistic that re-captures what the early Norwegian scene did - whether that is complete bs or not, that is subjective to the band’s own opinion so in not all cases is it a marketing ploy. Not to mention many of those early bands are obvious influences in various ways so if you're influenced by Burzum, then it isn't a crime to cite your influences - a band who claims to be influenced by nothing is usually foolish, and in any case the album doesn't have to sound like Burzum to be influenced by Burzum
skeptik
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Fuck Buzzword Black Metal. You can tell when somebody is bullshitting.
Any band playing music today proclaiming to be playing "True Norwegian Black Metal" is using a marketing ploy, period. Whether they believe that they are or not, it is more than likely that they also know that they'll get far more attention by using that phrase. As far as Gorgoroth goes, they were a bit of an "also ran," but they have more of a legitimate claim than Dimmu Borgir, whose music never fit with the aesthetic merits formulated by Mayhem, Burzum, Emperor, Immortal, Darkthrone, and Enslaved. This is not necessarily a knock against Dimmu Borgir. They are not bad just because they were not part of this particular niche; their quality is entirely incidental to this. I'm just trying to clarify my point.
Any band playing music today proclaiming to be playing "True Norwegian Black Metal" is using a marketing ploy, period. Whether they believe that they are or not, it is more than likely that they also know that they'll get far more attention by using that phrase. As far as Gorgoroth goes, they were a bit of an "also ran," but they have more of a legitimate claim than Dimmu Borgir, whose music never fit with the aesthetic merits formulated by Mayhem, Burzum, Emperor, Immortal, Darkthrone, and Enslaved. This is not necessarily a knock against Dimmu Borgir. They are not bad just because they were not part of this particular niche; their quality is entirely incidental to this. I'm just trying to clarify my point.
Carcassian
Utopian Blaster
...except that Ars raises an interesting point about promotional companies, who send out this sort of shit. I have interviewed a goodly many bands who have been openly amused at what drivel the PR company sends out in the promotional blurb. What is suggested in an ad, or a flyer, isn't anything like what the band wants to say, half the time.
Mind you, I know what you mean. "True" black metal sucks horse cock.
Mind you, I know what you mean. "True" black metal sucks horse cock.
gorgoroth used to be true norwegian black metal right? i mean back when you say it existed, and they are still making the same music, so how is it not true norwegian black metal?
Carcassian
Utopian Blaster
I don't think they were really prominent when the second wave erupted, releasing their first album in '94. That aside, I don't think anyone is "true norwegian black metal" anymore, as that time has been and gone. For the same reason, Iron Maiden aren't NWOBHM any more ? See ?
skeptik
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care to explain this statment? are you familiar with the patriots, at all? brady has had NO legitimate receivers until this season and he has 3 superbowl rings. over rated, i think not!
skeptik
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Ask cookiecutter.
And the assertion that they've had "NO legitimate receivers" is completely bullshit. Their coach has always had a niche of finding excellent position players who were not necessarily big name players. Just because the Patriots' receivers weren't talked about on ESPN all the time doesn't mean they're not "legitimate receivers."
The current Patriots dynasty has largely been built on defense anyway. You could've put Trent Dilfer in there with any of those Super Bowl teams and they still would have won. Who gives a shit if Tom Brady has 3 Superbowl rings? Any other quarterback in his position would have had three Superbowl rings as well because he didn't do anything special to get his team there. His team brought him there.
And the assertion that they've had "NO legitimate receivers" is completely bullshit. Their coach has always had a niche of finding excellent position players who were not necessarily big name players. Just because the Patriots' receivers weren't talked about on ESPN all the time doesn't mean they're not "legitimate receivers."
The current Patriots dynasty has largely been built on defense anyway. You could've put Trent Dilfer in there with any of those Super Bowl teams and they still would have won. Who gives a shit if Tom Brady has 3 Superbowl rings? Any other quarterback in his position would have had three Superbowl rings as well because he didn't do anything special to get his team there. His team brought him there.
Hatebreeder
Pizzicato Heartstrings
Regarding the earlier conversation about tr00 black metal, I use this description as an indicator of what sort of music the CD contains. For example, when I saw that Carpathian Forest's Fuck You All! had the label "True Norwegian Black Metal", the first thought going through my mind was "oh, so they have music heavily influenced by the older Norwegian black metal bands that I rather like. Okay."
It may be a marketing ploy, but that's alright with me. It sometimes helps to see such a thing when wanting to understand an unknown band's music.
It may be a marketing ploy, but that's alright with me. It sometimes helps to see such a thing when wanting to understand an unknown band's music.
Zephyrus
Tyrants and Slaves
I think they adopted that slogan to appeal to fans of later Darkthrone, who seem to maintain the true sound while sounding more and more punkish.
Dazed and Brutal
Yall About to Witness
Hatebreeder
Pizzicato Heartstrings
I've been slightly interested in buying Saxon's greatest hit collection (Heavy Metal Thunder), but is it worth it?
korruption
Amateur Dentist
How about 'At Vance'? Sure, they can be pretty generic and they haven't changed their style much over the years (so I've read) but why fix what isn't broken? Rick Altzi is a kickass singer too.
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