The Metal Mainstream

[entanglement]

Many metalheads find minimal musicianship in other genres, and that is one of the reasons why most other genres don't 'please the metalhead ear' as much. If one were to consider metal as an entirely different but yet a set of minds that are very similar in terms of their musical preferences, their lifestyle, their intelligence (for a large part), then are the more famous and more prestigious bands really the best material metal has to offer as a genre? If there is so much of a similarity in musical taste among people, then are the more universally liked bands (opeth, primordial, agalloch, burzum) the 'best' material out there or the best work done in terms of artistic aesthetics? Is the stuff that sells more and is mainstream enough to do that the best metal done?

I've had trouble phrasing this post because the idea in my head is rather.. too difficult to articulate. Hope I did fine.

 

[Einherjar86]

I think I understand what you're saying. I don't think the metal mainstream is enough to get an idea of metal as a whole, but I think there are definitely some good bands to be found. However, I don't think they're the "best." The few exceptions, I believe, would be bands like Kamelot or Turisas. And still, while I enjoy these bands, I don't consider them sufficient in learning about metal in general.

 

[Zephyrus]

There are many, many factors in determining a band's popularity, with the subjective experience of the individual playing a major role. The most important of these factors seems to be originality and promotion. Most bands become popular among metalheads because they introduce something new, or put a fresh spin on a past aesthetic. Promotion is also crucial. Band X can be just as innovative or "quality" as band Y, but which band becomes more popular mostly depends on how much they are promoted, either by fans, labels, or the critical media like magazines and review sites.

Once a band has garnered enough attention to be recognized by a majority of metalheads who affirm the quality of that band's music, then their popularity grows thanks to a sort of psychological groupthink. It's the notion that "band X is really popular among my friends, then they must be good somehow." How most metalheads behave is that they are more likely to pursue and dedicate their listening more to bands that are acclaimed by a larger group of people, more so than a more obscure band with few fans.

 

[cookiecutter]

The metal mainstream is a strange thing. Good bands can and do become very popular. Look at Darkthrone, Slayer, Suffocation for examples. Every non-noob person who likes metal should at least know those bands. On the other hands incredibly bad bands also become popular. It still mystifies me why people like Cradle of Filth or Killswitch Engage. It's not like those bands are passing fads, they've been going for a while. If I had to guess as to why this can happen, I would speculate that there are two very different worlds of metal heads. One, which inhabits this board and has generally good taste, and another with shitty taste that I really don't know anything about.

 

[The_Lunar_Strain]

I wouldn't consider Darkthrone and Suffocation mainstream, stuff like Children of Bodom and Black Dahlia murder would be mainstream and pretty much all of it sucks with the exception of power metal like Kamelot.

 

[Dead Winter]

pretty much all of it sucks with the exception of power metal like Kamelot.

wat

 

[Manic Ferocity]

The metal mainstream is a strange thing. Good bands can and do become very popular. Look at Darkthrone, Slayer, Suffocation for examples. Every non-noob person who likes metal should at least know those bands. On the other hands incredibly bad bands also become popular. It still mystifies me why people like Cradle of Filth or Killswitch Engage. It's not like those bands are passing fads, they've been going for a while. If I had to guess as to why this can happen, I would speculate that there are two very different worlds of metal heads. One, which inhabits this board and has generally good taste, and another with shitty taste that I really don't know anything about.

Bands like Darkthrone, Slayer, and Suffocation started out underground and gained recognition over time because they were pioneers in their given genres (and just about every genre of music becomes known and bastardized over time).

 

[no country for old wainds]

im going to rephrase what i think your question is, tell me if i'm close:
does the fundamental uniformity between the majority of metalheads mean that popularity holds more merit in metal circles than it does in music as a whole?

i would say yes if that uniformity really did exist, obviously if you're similar to most metalheads and most metalheads like an album then you'll probably like an album. problem is that metal is too diverse a genre these days attracting a wide range of personalities, and so there ain't as much uniformity anymore - certainly i personally can't trust the opinion of the metalhead collective as too many stray a million miles away from my mindset

that said, there are sub-circles of metalheads (say, certain internet boards) where i take far greater notice of an album's popularity. so yeah

 

[RampageSword]

Metal, like any other musical style, is functioning on popularity. As Zephyrus put it, usually a band becomes popular because of either them offering something new or being promoted properly. Extensive touring and multiple magazine appearances will get you more fans. There is no doubt in that.

What I find amusing is the irony that metalheads in general (as a social group let's say) are people who, at least on the musical level, shun pop culture and all things trendy and mainstream yet within their own subculture, they function the exact same way the rest of the world does. They listen to what everybody else is listening to. That is why, for example, you have a much higher chance of finding a metalhead with a Opeth shirt than one with an Astriaal one.

Not only that, within the metal culture there are the sub-groups. Those who prefer black metal or power metal, or doom, old-school thrash etc...
All in all the music that becomes the most popular is the one that's publicized, that gets more word of mouth. Also landmarks like Black Sabbath or Slayer are always going to be revered simply because they've been around long and they've been within the first to play the way they do.

Personally, I tend to be very picky in my music and for me, being told by someone that this or that band is awesome, is not enough for me to like it. I have to listen to a band to form my opinion.

then are the more famous and more prestigious bands really the best material metal has to offer as a genre?

No. I don't think so. Actually, for some, it tends to be the other way around. Popular bands can also be groups that offer a more accessible (diluted) version of the style they're playing. Just compare Metallica to Dark Angel (both popular I know but 12 year-old girls listening to M.I.A know who Metallica is...)I find that younger metalheads will generally start with the widely-known universal bands everybody seem to like and slowly start discovering more underground bands that play music in a way they like even more...My introduction to metal was In Flames (back in the Colony days) and since then I have discovered numerous bands of different genres and the one I like the most are not always, even rarely, the most popular ones. Heck, I don't even listen to In Flames anymore.

 

[no country for old wainds]

There are many, many factors in determining a band's popularity, with the subjective experience of the individual playing a major role. The most important of these factors seems to be originality and promotion.

interesting you should bring up originality 'cause obviously most popular metal bands these days are far from original. furthermore there's a whole load of metalheads who hold people in disdain for only liking original bands. i do agree that those bands which stand the test of time and remain popular 10, 20 years after their releases almost always tend to be pioneers and innovators

 

[no country for old wainds]

They listen to what everybody else is listening to. That is one of the reasons (and surely not the primary one) why you have a much higher chance of finding a metalhead with a Bathory shirt than one with an Astriaal one.

you're making a mostly valid (if kind of obvious) point but this part set off my bullshit detector and needs editing (bold mine). bathory wasn't a good example to use at all

 

[Zephyrus]

Consistent popularity is more valuable than immediate popularity. The original bands are of the former.

 

[RampageSword]

you're making a mostly valid (if kind of obvious) point but this part set off my bullshit detector and needs editing (bold mine). bathory wasn't a good example to use at all

Agreed. I guess I've become much too black metalish these days.

Corrected.

 

[llamaking]

people like bands like killswitch because they are kind of a gateway band into metal and more extreme genres. So if it was one of the first metal bands they found they tend to listen to it still even if they do delve deeper into metal.

 

[no country for old wainds]

Consistent popularity is more valuable than immediate popularity. The original bands are of the former.

absolutely

 

[Vashti]

people like bands like killswitch because they are kind of a gateway band into metal and more extreme genres. So if it was one of the first metal bands they found they tend to listen to it still even if they do delve deeper into metal.

that makes total sense. One of the first metal bands for me was....*gasp* Bullet For My Valentine.
This is kind of ironic that you say this because just the other night I was telling my friend that with all the metal I like now (mostly death metal), and if I were to hear BFMV for the first time today I would probably say I don't like it because their sound isn't what I'm into...but since they were the first band that screamed and made me like it...I tend to love them. I don't know if that makes any sense...but I hated all screaming until BFMV did it then I got into more metal now I'm more into death metal but BFMV is still awesome to me. lol


Now for this thread...I think I understand what you're saying. are you saying that the mainstream metal bands is as good as it gets? I think not.
I hardly like Opeth..I have never found what's so blatantly amazing about them. I hardly like any of these real popular metal bands such as Arch Enemy, In Flames, Children Of Bodom, Death, Pantera etc... they have just never appealed to me. I of course think they are talented...but man, there are better bands than them IN MY OPINION. it's just what's pleasing to my ears...and those bands don't please me as much as these other great bands I find on myspace and such. so, alot of people can worship Opeth if they want, but I won't...because I find that I don't enjoy the popular metal as much as the underground metal...it's just what my ears like. lol

 

[waif]

What the hell is the metal mainstream? we haven't defined it.
To me, the metal mainstream would be stuff like Metallica, Megadeth, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, etc, who are major concert draws and have received critical acclaim and major success.

But some (not all) of you people seem to have defined "mainstream" as "widely known"

I don't think there can be any point in discussing this without a definition of mainstream.

 

[Blind Guardian]

I dont really get how Opeth has magnaged to get so big. The accesibility of their music isn´t on par with their popularity. Everytime when for example there´s someone who has Dragonforce and Opeth as his two favorite bands i´m confused,it shouldn´t be possible to be able to get the brilliance and subtle beauty of Opeth and at the same time appreciate something like Dragonforce,at least not to me.

 

[Vashti]

What the hell is the metal mainstream? we haven't defined it.
To me, the metal mainstream would be stuff like Metallica, Megadeth, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, etc, who are major concert draws and have received critical acclaim and major success.

But some (not all) of you people seem to have defined "mainstream" as "widely known"

I don't think there can be any point in discussing this without a definition of mainstream.

that is true. my definition of mainstream metal is when it's really well known. For example, almost every metal fan has heard of Children Of Bodom. to me they're mainstream. doesn't mean they are bad of course....just that they're mainstream metal, nothing bad about it. same with Opeth. that's what I see as mainstream metal to clarify.

 

[Blind Guardian]

But still,even Dimmu Borgir isn´t mainstream. Most of us are such metal nerds that whe´ve forgotten how small metal really is,we assume everyone know of those bands but go around on the street and ask people if they´ve heard of Dimmu Borgir and most wouldn´t have a clue about such stuff.