The Official Movie Thread

[CiG]

Finally got to see Parasite today, and after reading through these spoiler posts (great read, everybody made good points), I feel ready to share some thoughts:

Spoiler

About the rock, I don't have much to add onto what has already been said, except that I think the rock in some sense represents the weight of responsibility (if someone hands you an object as a gift and says "this will bring financial luck" they have inadvertently placed more pressure upon your shoulders to fulfill the superstition, ironically enough) and I think this is why the rock floats to the surface of the flooded basement-house to the son, as a metaphor for the responsibility to rescue his father (implied in the scene is an inevitable failure to do so, the stone will be too heavy for him and he will drown (metaphorically) while carrying it, just like he couldn't manage to carry it down the stairs earlier on).

Ein said; the rock doesn't actually bring the Kims good luck, and I never said that it does; I said that the Kims clearly think it will (or at least the father and son do--maybe not the mother) and I could be misremembering but it's only the father and son (and husband who uses it to bludgeon) who pay it any mind, the mother and daughter either treat it with disregard or in the case of the mother, cynicism. This feels like a critique of gender roles, the weight of responsibility that society places on men to either earn money or commit brutality. Just a theory I couldn't shake while watching the film.

As to the whole hollow disagreement, I think it could be considered hollow (not literally) because it was gifted as an item of superstitious content, not dissimilar to a fortune cookie or a four leaf clover. In a sense it was Bong inserting pre-capitalistic folk ideals about luck and fortune into a film that critiques the material reality of capitalism and class. Hugging a magic stone won't get you out of the gutter, in fact it may as well be an anchor in the modern capitalistic era.

The family ascended without trickery is a false statement. The entire premise of the friend getting the son to pretend to be a tutor is trickery, right from the very beginning (as Ein pointed out). I personally don't think the downfall of the Kim family was specifically due to greed or trickery (if these things lead to downfall, nobody would succeed in a capitalistic system in the first place), though that's a part of it obviously, and I'm surprised nobody really mentioned this angle on the plot; I think the reason for their undoing and one of the most specific class-related plot elements of Parasite was that the Kim family backstabbed other working and servant class people in order to climb the social ranks for that brief period. Fucking over the driver and lying to themselves about him probably finding a better job anyway, fucking over the house keeper and her husband (intra-class warfare spilling out into the yard as a direct result), it was in terms of class politics one of the worst sins imaginable.

Anyway fantastic film.

 

[rms]

Spoiler

I think the reason for their undoing and one of the most specific class-related plot elements of Parasite was that the Kim family backstabbed other working and servant class people in order to climb the social ranks for that brief period

The idea of "I don't care about others as long as it benefits my own", parallels much of Mother, which again is prominent here.

Memories is also very big on this, ignoring the country side for urban wealth. I think it's clearly Bong's take and major critique on capitalism.

But the gender role aspect would be interesting to see on another watch of it, not sure it sticks but i'll try and keep that in mind.

 

[Einherjar86]

shouldn't, its a bad saving Private Ryan (not band of bros)

don't be a bitch, Ein. this forum is half dead without Cig posting every thought anyways

Spoiler

they barely talk about this is such an overreaction to justify your position

this isn't able to be backed up with a convincing argument. The film clearly argues they cannot escape the "stench" of once being poor, but they are not systematically kept down or "unable to ascend" or something to that effect.

you really just ignore counter points and act like you were never wrong let alone actually handle the point against your current position.

dont know how you can believe this without thinking Parasite is actually Snowpiercer

this is your minority agency problem. they had many choices, and

you can't say it's this more than just asian bullshit -- like the shit they do with rhino tusks or whatever else

no idea how you think the film demonstrates this

you're like a trump denier when it comes to this rock CLEARLY NOT BEING HOLLOW

Spoiler

The father and son do treat the rock as though it will bring them luck--the father literally holds it up in a reverent manner, and the son privileges the rock over more material resources, like food (as his mother points out). I don't think this is an overreaction. I do think that CIG makes a great point that there's a gendered reaction to the rock, which strikes me as a critique of the patriarchal household; the father and son seem much more hung up on the rock's mystical qualities and its potential for bringing them good fortune, while the mother and daughter mostly ignore it. The father is also a kind of bumbling figure, clearly not as cunning as the mother or daughter. I feel like the wealthy family is a foil to this: the wife being a daytime drinker and somewhat aloof, the husband being sharp and threatening. It's a fascinating dynamic.

You (i.e. rms) say that the film doesn't give us enough information to tell whether the Kims are part of a perpetual underclass that capitalism requires in order to sustain itself; but this is all the film shows us, i.e. that they're virtually imprisoned by their social position. They try and escape, but they're repeatedly identified (by their smell) and eventually returned to their "proper place" (by the flood). The only way those of the lower classes can remain within the wealthy family's house is by hiding themselves in it. The film gives us plenty of evidence to suggest that the problem with capitalism is that it forces those in precarious situations to lie, cheat, and steal if they want to get anywhere.

You're also ignoring points that I've made--for instance, that their entire rise is premised on trickery. This strongly suggests that any legitimate opportunity to ascend the social ladder has been (and will continue to be) denied to them. They're getting nowhere folding pizza boxes. All their successes are achieved in underhanded ways; they all pretend to be someone they're not in order to enjoy temporary luxury.

I think you maybe should spend more time reading criticism about the film and Bong-Joon ho's interviews and comments about capitalism. He has actually said "We all live in the same country now: that of capitalism," a comment that suggests national differences mean less for a film like Parasite than capitalism's globalist reach. The rock isn't just "Asian bullshit" because it clearly ties into how the family (or at least the father and son) perceives their potential financial windfall; it's implicitly connected to capitalism because it's connected to the possibility of higher social status.

 

[CiG]

Spoiler

The only way those of the lower classes can remain within the wealthy family's house is by hiding themselves in it.

This reminded me of something else; the Park family's home is itself a microcosm of society (I think somebody already alluded to this) with its levels and there's the part where the father complains that his house will be a trash heap in a week unless they get a new house keeper, and the food will be awful and his clothes will stink because his wife is basically useless. Without their servants the whole ecosystem of the house falls apart. Also to what you (Ein) said about the families and their opposing gender dynamics; the Park family's females are pampered and naive, the males are sharp and talented, whereas the Kim family is basically the reverse---I think this is a window into Bong's class consciousness because the Kim women are very much in the tradition of tough and savvy poor/working class depictions of women, and I completely identify with the mother in particular as she reminds me of a bunch of my aunties IRL haha.

I'm wondering if there's any significance with the success of the Park family which is run by a dominant patriarch and the poverty of the Kim family which is run by a dominant matriarch?

 

[Oblivious Maximus]

 

[CiG]

Spoiler: RE High Life

The scene where the lady doctor rapes a sedated Pattinson and then scoops his cum from inside of herself and walks down the hall with it cupped in her palm to another room where she injects it into Goth's pussy while she is also sedated is one of the most twisted and morbidly hilarious depictions of procreation I have ever witnessed. Even more absurd---this double-violation bears a child that could actually give rhetoric about childbirth being "a miracle" a ring of truth to it.

I liked @Einherjar86's write-up about the film (here for anybody interested) and the bits about how the spacecraft looks like a floating pile of low-tech junk made me think of Carpenter's Dark Star. In some ways High Life is a demystification of several things such as procreation and space travel. Seeing Pattinson in these roles makes me super excited to see him play Batman, can't wait to see what he does with the role.

Ein in your write-up you talked about the fap chamber (lol) and how it oozed black liquid and then white liquid on the outside. Maybe I'm too literal-minded at times but I assumed the "black" liquid was clear cleaning liquid that appears black atop the black apparatus and the white liquid was the soapy backwash being dispensed, almost like that apparatus was being cleaned like a car wash. Thoughts? After reading what you said I'm second-guessing myself because it does line up with many other visuals later on (breastmilk, body is a machine etc).

There was another thing from your piece I thought I'd mention (or more specifically add to); Later in the film, once Willow has grown into a teenager, viewers are presented with an uncomfortable scene in which she has climbed into bed with Monte.He pushes her away playfully, as a father would a child, calling her a silly girl, but the threat of transgression haunts their lonely lives on 7.How do human bodies resist their impulses when they’re just machines?

In this scene we also discover that Willow has started menstruating, she leaves blood on Pattinson's bed if you recall, and by all standards this is an indication of mating readiness (even if law and culture pushes the idea of readiness further back in years). This is a moment of raw biological reality that heightens the threat of transgression.

Some questions I felt were left unanswered were the motivations of Mink, the Asian woman who went on a rampage with the shovel, Tcherny's suicide and Dibs. Why did Dibs eject herself into space? Her injuries from Mink's attack seemed non-fatal. I felt like I missed something with these 3 individuals' ends.

 

[RadicalThrasher]

Watching

Spoiler

@TechnicalBarbarity ,

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

haha seeemon ese the black hand!

 

[no country for old wainds]

Spoiler: RE High Life

The scene where the lady doctor rapes a sedated Pattinson and then scoops his cum from inside of herself and walks down the hall with it cupped in her palm to another room where she injects it into Goth's pussy while she is also sedated is one of the most twisted and morbidly hilarious depictions of procreation I have ever witnessed. Even more absurd---this double-violation bears a child that could actually give rhetoric about childbirth being "a miracle" a ring of truth to it.

I liked @Einherjar86's write-up about the film (here for anybody interested) and the bits about how the spacecraft looks like a floating pile of low-tech junk made me think of Carpenter's Dark Star. In some ways High Life is a demystification of several things such as procreation and space travel. Seeing Pattinson in these roles makes me super excited to see him play Batman, can't wait to see what he does with the role.

Ein in your write-up you talked about the fap chamber (lol) and how it oozed black liquid and then white liquid on the outside. Maybe I'm too literal-minded at times but I assumed the "black" liquid was clear cleaning liquid that appears black atop the black apparatus and the white liquid was the soapy backwash being dispensed, almost like that apparatus was being cleaned like a car wash. Thoughts? After reading what you said I'm second-guessing myself because it does line up with many other visuals later on (breastmilk, body is a machine etc).

There was another thing from your piece I thought I'd mention (or more specifically add to); Later in the film, once Willow has grown into a teenager, viewers are presented with an uncomfortable scene in which she has climbed into bed with Monte.He pushes her away playfully, as a father would a child, calling her a silly girl, but the threat of transgression haunts their lonely lives on 7.How do human bodies resist their impulses when they’re just machines?

In this scene we also discover that Willow has started menstruating, she leaves blood on Pattinson's bed if you recall, and by all standards this is an indication of mating readiness (even if law and culture pushes the idea of readiness further back in years). This is a moment of raw biological reality that heightens the threat of transgression.

Some questions I felt were left unanswered were the motivations of Mink, the Asian woman who went on a rampage with the shovel, Tcherny's suicide and Dibs. Why did Dibs eject herself into space? Her injuries from Mink's attack seemed non-fatal. I felt like I missed something with these 3 individuals' ends.

Spoiler

i immediately wondered if the final ‘shall we?’ was referring to the taboo ein mentioned. i’m sure all the space stuff is metaphorical and that the movie is primarily about biological drives, but exactly what denis is saying from scene to scene is tricky to unpack on one viewing.

 

[CiG]

Spoiler

i immediately wondered if the final ‘shall we?’ was referring to the taboo ein mentioned.

Oh god I never even thought of that.

 

[Einherjar86]

Spoiler

i immediately wondered if the final ‘shall we?’ was referring to the taboo ein mentioned. i’m sure all the space stuff is metaphorical and that the movie is primarily about biological drives, but exactly what denis is saying from scene to scene is tricky to unpack on one viewing.

Spoiler

I also hadn't considered the ambiguity of the final line. That's wonderful.

I'm actually torn on whether the space stuff is metaphorical. On one hand, it corresponds figuratively with the sheer functionality of bodily drives entirely devoid of any sense of value, ideals, beliefs, etc. In this respect, the black hole might be symbolic of the absence at the core of matter--no taboos when everything is reduced to pure libidinal energies.

On the other hand, I'm reminded of Cormac McCarthy's notion that sometimes violence is just violence. From that perspective, I'm inclined to think that the premise and setting are literal but mean absolutely nothing, and the narrative serves as a thought experiment to test human resolve in the face of meaninglessness. So, the "Shall we?" could signal a kind of stoic rebuke to the hopelessness that surrounds them--an acknowledgement that if they don't descend into the singularity, there's nothing else for them to do except have sex.

I'd also add that both of these possibilities are complementary. They're basically alternative responses to the same existential impasse.

EDIT: well, had a double-feature kinda day. The wife went out with a friend to brunch and a movie, so I got to check out some of the "weird shit" that I like.

Beyond the Black Rainbow (Panos Cosmatos)

You can see him building toward Mandy with this one; the visuals and music totally anticipate the followup. It's a slow-burner, way more gradual than Mandy, and no real climax to speak of. I'd go so far as to call it boring at times, but I don't mind if the world around the boredom is entrancing--and this one certainly is.

The visuals are arresting throughout, but the highlights are in the "trip" sequence. In this respect, I actually feel like the film's a cross between Mandy and The Void. Also, the

Spoiler

sentionaut unmasking was creepy as hell.

The Last Winter (Larry Fessenden)

Global warming horror. This one was alright. I enjoyed it more when shit was just strange (temperature anomalies, rain in the middle of arctic winter, etc.) as opposed to when the horror elements began manifesting. The idea was kinda cool, but the execution was a bit weak.

On the plus side, I'm a fan of Ron Perlman and Connie Britton, and it was fun to see two great actors in such little-known low budget flick.

 

[rms]

Spoiler

You're also ignoring points that I've made--for instance, that their entire rise is premised on trickery. This strongly suggests that any legitimate opportunity to ascend the social ladder has been (and will continue to be) denied to them. They're getting nowhere folding pizza boxes. All their successes are achieved in underhanded ways; they all pretend to be someone they're not in order to enjoy temporary luxury.

feel like i've never denied this element of trickery as the "window" in for the family and korea is a very difficult country to ascend in, simply because they place such a high value on speaking english, which is dominated by tutoring and wealth more than anything else

eventually returned to their "proper place" (by the flood).

they are returned by murder not the flood. I would argue the flood was the humbling experience after they looked down upon the previous maid and how the self eating cycle was already being perpetuated.

capitalism is that it forces those in precarious situations to lie, cheat, and steal if they want to get anywhere.

forces was again the problem word here. there was no reason for the other three family members to join, but greed won. you again deny agency for minorities when they are faced with difficult choices, and they are choices , that you regularly forget.

The rock isn't just "Asian bullshit" because it clearly ties into how the family (or at least the father and son) perceives their potential financial windfall; it's implicitly connected to capitalism because it's connected to the possibility of higher social status.

I hope after typing this out you understand what asian bullshit meant, and I don't know why you're perplexed (especially with removing the rhino comparison), two people believe, to you, that the rock will bring good fortune. that's a cultural asian bullshit artifact that is of course related to material wealth and not bountiful harvests in this context. you are looking at such a short term vision.

a comment that suggests national differences mean less for a film like Parasite than capitalism's globalist reach.

the message is easily applicable because it's broad but it's still a korean film!

-I think this is a window into Bong's class consciousness because the Kim women are very much in the tradition of tough and savvy poor/working class depictions of women

seems to be the children are much more dominant in their family than the parents, especially before gender?

 

[Oblivious Maximus]

Habit and Wendigo are my favorite Fessenden movies.

 

[no country for old wainds]

the latest fessenden will comfortably be making my 2019 list.

 

[TageRyche]

I really like The Little Girl Who Lives Down the Lane. Sheen plays the pedo creep to perfection.

And Jodie Foster is in the movie! I have this one.

 

[TageRyche]

I saw Birds of Prey: And the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn on Friday. It was batshit crazy and pretty much felt like what I imagine a trip through an excessively violent funhouse high on LSD would look like. But I had fun watching it and despite some issues with certain parts of the film, it was well worth seeing. I gave it a 7 (call it 7 1/2 really) out of 10 on IMDB.

 

[Slammed]

Geez that's better than what most people I'm reading suggest. Hollywood seem to want to make it a flop but most of the people I'm reading seem to want the same. They seem to be torn between expecting HQ to be a teenage girls character (apparently they reckon it's where HQ's appeal is) and expecting some movie that rivals the best Batman movie. I haven't seen it yet, I do plan to, but your review is about the most positive I've read, even at 7/10. Most reviews I've read on other forums don't give it higher than a 5, which makes me want to see it more. I rarely watch stuff people give high ratings and high praise.

 

[Einherjar86]

Spoiler

feel like i've never denied this element of trickery as the "window" in for the family and korea is a very difficult country to ascend in, simply because they place such a high value on speaking english, which is dominated by tutoring and wealth more than anything else

Spoiler

You clearly said at one point that their ascent up the social ladder begins before they deceive people. That's an incorrect statement.

Spoiler

they are returned by murder not the flood. I would argue the flood was the humbling experience after they looked down upon the previous maid and how the self eating cycle was already being perpetuated.

Spoiler

That's not true. They race home because the Parks' camping trip is cancelled because of the flood. The maid's death is incidental, and has little to do with them returning home. The bodies are in the hidden basement, so what do they matter?

Spoiler

forces was again the problem word here. there was no reason for the other three family members to join, but greed won. you again deny agency for minorities when they are faced with difficult choices, and they are choices , that you regularly forget.

Spoiler

I'm so sick of this comment. It has nothing to do with me denying minorities agency (give me a fucking break) and everything to do with what the film actually shows us. If you're asking me whether it's possible for the Kims to have chosen to act differently, my answer is yes--of course it's possible. The point is that the film doesn't show us that, and doesn't make their deception a moral dilemma. It's not about whether they should deceive the Parks; there's never any question about whether they should (only whether they can).

You're not doing film criticism here; you're making objections based on hypotheticals that exist outside the filmic world. Is it hypothetically possible that the Kims could have chosen not to deceive the Parks? Sure. It's possible they could have done anything other than they did. I'm not saying they have no agency; I'm saying the film chose to show us what it did. That's what I'm working with here. If anything denies the Kims agency, it's not me--it's Parasite.

Spoiler

I hope after typing this out you understand what asian bullshit meant, and I don't know why you're perplexed (especially with removing the rhino comparison), two people believe, to you, that the rock will bring good fortune. that's a cultural asian bullshit artifact that is of course related to material wealth and not bountiful harvests in this context. you are looking at such a short term vision.

Spoiler

Once again I don't understand you. You're a horrible writer. Are you saying that if it's just "Asian bullshit," then it can't also have a metaphorical purpose in the film? That seems incorrect.

Spoiler

the message is easily applicable because it's broad but it's still a korean film!

So???

You're making less and less sense as you dance around my responses.

 

[CiG]

Spoiler

seems to be the children are much more dominant in their family than the parents, especially before gender?

I wouldn't say so, the son isn't what I'd call dominant myself. I think there's a definite gender dynamic in who is dominant in each family and how it intersects with their class status. The daughter of the Park family is a damn near non-entity.

feel like i've never denied this element of trickery as the "window" in for the family

The family was already ascending without trickery, the tutor propped up the son because he wasn't worried about him banging the youngin'.

^

the latest fessenden will comfortably be making my 2019 list.

Depraved? That's good to know, wanted to check that out myself.

I saw Birds of Prey: And the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn on Friday. It was batshit crazy and pretty much felt like what I imagine a trip through an excessively violent funhouse high on LSD would look like. But I had fun watching it and despite some issues with certain parts of the film, it was well worth seeing. I gave it a 7 (call it 7 1/2 really) out of 10 on IMDB.

Geez that's better than what most people I'm reading suggest. Hollywood seem to want to make it a flop but most of the people I'm reading seem to want the same. They seem to be torn between expecting HQ to be a teenage girls character (apparently they reckon it's where HQ's appeal is) and expecting some movie that rivals the best Batman movie. I haven't seen it yet, I do plan to, but your review is about the most positive I've read, even at 7/10. Most reviews I've read on other forums don't give it higher than a 5, which makes me want to see it more. I rarely watch stuff people give high ratings and high praise.

I don't really get why you'd avoid movies that get a lot of praise, unless it doesn't look appealing to begin with. But anyway I'll definitely be seeing the HQ film eventually regardless of how it's rated. I saw Suicide Squad even though that got bodied in the ratings, which turned out to be below average but whatever. It happens. Wonder Woman was about as meh as Suicide Squad and people rated that one out the ass.

Birds of Prey has a decent rating on Rotten Tomatoes for whatever that's worth, almost at 80%. Also some consideration for the fact that Cathy Yan the director is a literal nobody.

 

[Slammed]

Shit that is over hyped, by the studios, the media or the viewing public turns me off, simple as that. I'm more likely to see something that gets average to shit reviews than I am the latest blockbuster.