The Official Movie Thread

Dark Fate was absolute garbage.

I liked the idea of an alternate sequel timeline that interprets Sarah Connor to be the main character and not John, but everything about the execution was just shit. The script was just complete garbage and I can't even say Linda Hamilton's character escaped unscathed, she gets some absolutely terrible lines like the "I'll be back" randomly inserted in the bridge scene that makes no sense in context and just serves as a non sequitur reference to the original films.

I'm also not usually someone who gets triggered by social justice pandering in Hollywood films, but this one did it for me.

The twist that Dani is in fact the savior that the Rev-9 was sent back to kill and not her unborn child annoyed me. First because Dani shows no qualities to indicate that she could be that important to the future survival of the human race, whereas John in T2 was shown to be an adept hacker even as a kid. Secondly, Sarah just kind of assumes based on nothing that the only reason the Rev-9 would target Dani is because she's the future mother of someone important. They gave the most independent female character such a strongly patriarchal worldview that she'd think a woman has no value except as a mother just so they could set up their twist that actually, the young Mexican immigrant woman was the destined savior all along! Such a brave and progressive twist!
 
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What about the retarded call back to when Dani playfully stole a slice of canned peach from her friend at the start, when Grace says scavengers murdered her father over a can of peaches. I groaned so hard at so much of the dialogue, especially Grace's. Did they name the most graceless character Grace on purpose? She's a black hole for charisma.
 
funny I disagree with your john in t2 take ! I didn't take him to be a special character at all in t2, just that one day...

They definitely establish him as technically proficient so you can kinda buy that his future adult self would be reprogramming robots to defend humanity. Tbf I don't know if those scenes were in the original version, as I only vividly remember the extended cut.
 
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That's the scene I was thinking of! Is showing him hacking an atm not enough to establish him as technically gifted?
 
Ah yes, another conversation in which rms reminds us that his expectations for diegetic exposition are ridiculously high.

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That's the scene I was thinking of! Is showing him hacking an atm not enough to establish him as technically gifted?
definitely could, just thinking his storyline was similar to his mothers...no idea that they are special other than someone from the future telling them they are special and having to wait for that day to come. I don't really remember the re-programming part of his stardom, is that from T2 or later on?

Ah yes, another conversation in which rms reminds us that his expectations for diegetic exposition are ridiculously high.
dont be a homo, i saw the movie for the first time when I was like 8
 
@Vegard Pompey 100% agree with the part you edited in. I feel like they gave Sarah a patriarchal worldview as a kind of symbolic slamdunk on "white feminism."

To John vs Dani, not only does John exhibit above average intelligence and knowledge of technology well before the era of the Internet and the armchair expert, his personality was also fundamentally rebellious so it makes sense for him to grow up and lead a rebellion against the machines. Dani exhibited zero qualities that could make you believe she'd grow up to basically be a futuristic Che Guevara (other than lol she's brown) and the scene where she's learning to shoot and Sarah interrupts the training and says "a machine just killed your whole family, what are you going to do?" and she hits all her targets (but then later when she fires a handgun at the REV-9 as they're trying to get away in a helicopter she misses her shots...lol) was dumb as fuck.

It really did just feel like some kind of lazy 2 hour analogy for "brown women are the future" but even that would have been serviceable if the details and dialogue weren't so cringeworthy.
 
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Watched:

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Considering all the lacklustre reception this movie seemed to get (with harsh ratings from Slayed and Wainds on RYM) I'm quite surprised by how much I liked Guillermo del Toro's The Shape of Water.

Setting aside all the accusations of plagiarism from all over the place (some of which I can definitely see, the whole time I was thinking "this feels like if you combined Amélie and Creature from the Black Lagoon" and then I come to find out Jean-Pierre Jeunet directly accused Guillermo of plagiarizing his films lol and the creature's design was inspired by Creature from the Black Lagoon) what I really liked about the movie was its playful juxtaposition of some things like:

  • The griminess of the sets with the beautifully innocent almost Disney princess-esque soundtrack.
  • The almost lowbrow mundane depictions of nudity and sexuality in contrast to the puritanism of the period (amplified by the scene where Michael Shannon bangs his wife while he smothers her noises with his bleeding mutilated hand).
  • The main character masturbating in her bathtub while an egg timer sits on her sink timing down her eggs boiling on the stove top (female masturbation in cinema is rarely ever depicted as so banal, especially with a flowery composed piece of music playing over it).
The design of the creature itself is absolutely top notch and one of the biggest highlights of the film which I think even those who disliked the movie can agree with. Sally Hawkins is also pretty god damn sexy.

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I also appreciated the symbolism of the scene where the creature eats Jenkins' cat whose name is Pandora, moments before he flees their apartment and into the city where his first stop is a cinema directly below their apartment building. Eating the cat Pandora is the literal catalyst for opening Pandora's Box. I liked it, made me smile.

The running gag/mini-arc of Michael Shannon's fucked up fingers was pretty disgusting and humorous, the pus scene and the end where he finally tears his own fingers off were fucked up. This also gets into the environmentalist symbolism of the film, with the creature representing nature and when it's treated right it has the ability to heal, but when it's treated wrong it bites off your fingers which then begin to fester once they've been re-attached lmfao.

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Just wanted to push back on something you said in your review @no country for old wainds where you said nobody had any use for Jenkins' shitty art, I'm not sure if you were just wording it this way for effect or you genuinely missed the clues that his character is gay and that's why his employer seemed to give him the run-around.

The reason his art got rejected was because it depicted a nuclear family and if you remember when he goes into the office and is told to redraw certain elements of his painting, his boss asks him if he's still drinking and Jenkins implores that he's quit, to me this seems to allude to a moment that may have occurred where Jenkins was drunk and hit on another guy in the office (the cliched "sorry I was drunk and didn't know what I was doing" excuse from closeted people when their true self slips out a bit) and now they think he's gay and don't want to work with him.

This is also why he flirts with the man who works at the pie place, and is asked to leave saying (paraphrased) "this is a family friendly establishment." There's a constant theme of family values contrasted against a mute orphan woman, a gay man trying to work as an artist in the advertisement industry which is heavily family-focused at that time, and a fish/man/thing not created in God's own image (as Shannon's character puts it) and as such the film's point (or one of them) is that "family" has many appearances, and in fact the "nuclear family" is an unnatural modern creation. If you think about it, the Jenkins/Hawkins dynamic is an analogy for a gay man adopting an orphan girl (something family values types often rail against).

I don't think anything about this film is shoehorned, disinterested or incoherent myself. Pandering perhaps but it's all very purposeful, symbolic and intersecting thematically.

Other things I learned after watching it; Jenkins' character was actually originally written for Ian McKellen, Octavia Spencer who played Zelda said one of the things she really liked about the script was that by having the two main characters be mute it meant most of the dialogue came from a black woman and a man in the closet (this is how you do social justice messaging in cinema imo beautiful subversion), Hawkins wearing more and more red as the film goes on was something I noticed and liked but thought maybe it was just my imagination, I didn't want to rewind and see, but according to IMDB Trivia this was done on purpose. I assume to symbolize her revitalization as an entity in the world? That's my interpretation anyhow.

Sorry long rambling post lol.
 
yeah i was really just trying to segue it into a comment on del toro himself lol, that was actually my favourite scene in the movie for the record. i love hawkins and jenkins and they both carried the weaker moments a lot for me. that was my 4th favourite of the best pic nominees from that year at worst and i didn’t mind it but i was probably a bit salty that it was gonna beat phantom thread haha. enjoyed your analysis anyway, makes me wanna watch it again tbh if only so i could reply in more detail.
 
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Then it was worth typing it up through my incoherent retardation of a thought process. Understandable that it beating out Phantom Thread is salt-inducing though, Phantom Thread is way better.

Watching...

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<3

Edit: lol...

 
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