The thread about guns and stuff like that!

[Ben_t]

I agree with it in my case.. if someone breaks into my house theyre gonna die.. i've almost killed people for lesser reasons and im not proud of it but if you break into my house even though I realize you have a problem you will disapear ... the cops will not be called and you'll end up tied up in my closet for a year or so until I dispose of you.

I think everybody should have guns.

 

[Valerie]

ugh...wouldn't that be a bad idea? Can you explain me how you pull your gun on him in this situation? Do you think you're like Billy the kid and could pull your gun and fire before he has time to kill you?

I mean if he's holding you at gunpoint wouldn't trying to get your gun out result in a more dangerous situation than just giving your wallet? Or maybe you just wait and shoot him in the back when he tries to run away? How is a gun protecting you when someone has already a gun in your face?

A lot of people seem to have seen way to many movies and view guns as something that provides a lot more protection than it really does.

Finally, WeAreInFlames please stop arguing. You have to be the worst I've ever seen at trying to argue. You almost make me want to argue against you even though I share some of your views.

I'm talking about what's legal, not what's practical. How did you misunderstand that?

If someone's attacking you with their hands and feet, you're allowed to only respond with your hands and feet. If someone's attacking you with a knife, you can defend yourself with a knife; if with a gun, you can use a gun.

 

[Ben_t]

I'm talking about what's legal, not what's practical. How did you misunderstand that?

Actually, I remembered someone who posted an article (probably in the picture thread) about a guy that was killed by someone who stole his wallet. The article was posted in an attempt to show that having a gun would have saved his life...

So what I posted was partially to show the false sense of protection that some have because of a gun and also partially as an answer to that previous post.

So my post wasn't really an answer to what you said in that particular post, although it really seems that way...

 

[waif]

Shit, I can understand being against gun violence, but being against self defense is fucking retarded.

It's not self defense if they wouldn't attack you. Just because they point a gun at you doesn't mean they'll use it.

why is it going to far? they're using a gun to take your wallet. even up the playing field.

They aren't really going to shoot you unless you refuse to give them your wallet.

I agree with it in my case.. if someone breaks into my house theyre gonna die.. i've almost killed people for lesser reasons and im not proud of it but if you break into my house even though I realize you have a problem you will disapear ... the cops will not be called and you'll end up tied up in my closet for a year or so until I dispose of you. With that being said you can't just have a law where if people walk into your house unlawfully you can kill them. Then it's to easy to murder anyone... beat out your winow and invite someone over.. when they walk in the door blow there head off.... make sure it looks ligit.. and there you go. You just got away with murder.

Is this a joke?

or another example... your wife goes out of town for the night... she gets home and and walks in the house and it's dark ... you blow her head off for the life insurance and just tell the athoritys that you were sure it was an intruder.

Pretty certain that wouldn't really work...

 

[Ben_t]

It's not self defense if they wouldn't attack you. Just because they point a gun at you doesn't mean they'll use it.

Don't you consider the fact that they are trying to rob you or point a gun at you an act of violence? I do...

They aren't really going to shoot you unless you refuse to give them your wallet.

How do you know that? You might get shot, you might not. Assuming that someone who is willing to rob you in the first place won't be willing to go further is retarded. He might, he might not...who knows.

See even though I share some of your anti-guns feeling I can still point out the bullshit you type. Most of what you say is totally retarded and ignorant.

Gun saves lives and guns can make a dangerous situation deadly (yeah...even for the guy defending himself...). You just can't think like everything is set in stone and every situation is going to be the same.

 

[Rob "Klister"]

"They aren't really going to shoot you unless you refuse to give them your wallet."

and you know this for a fact? i think someone already posted an artical where someone gave there stuff, walked away, and then got shot in the back.

"It's not self defense if they wouldn't attack you. Just because they point a gun at you doesn't mean they'll use it."

if someone points a gun at me i'm going to see that as an attack.

whats a person have to do to you for you to stand up for yourself?

edit:ninja'd by benny t

 

[Never78]

They aren't really going to shoot you unless you refuse to give them your wallet.

I guess he wants that wallet pretty bad then. This is a guy you care about?

I don't agree with the "flee in zig-zag motions" policy to self defense; nor the "anything but my life" philosophy. That said, this scenario is ridiculous. The best use for a gun is with the element of surprise.

 

[waif]

Don't you consider the fact that they are trying to rob you or point a gun at you an act of violence? I do...

I don't consider it violence until they cause you physical pain.

How do you know that? You might get shot, you might not. Assuming that someone who is willing to rob you in the first place won't be willing to go further is retarded.

It's actually a good assumption - why the fuck would he want a murder charge? Most muggings do not end in someone being shot. I think this alone supports my theory that the mugger doesn't want to kill you, he just wants your wallet.

See even though I mostly agree with you I can still point out the bullshit you type. Most of what you say is totally retarded and ignorant.

Actually, what I'm saying is rational and based in logic, rather than based in ignorance and a belief in the power of annecdotal evidence.

You just can't think like everything is set in stone and every situation is going to be the same.

I'm not saying that. I'm saying your odds are better if you don't pull a gun.

and you know this for a fact? i think someone already posted an artical where someone gave there stuff, walked away, and then got shot in the back.

Have you ever heard the word "aberration?" It means something happening that isn't normal - in this case, a mugger killing someone needlessly. This got in the news because it's so unusual. Most (i.e. pretty much all) of the time, they'll take your wallet and cell phone and let you go. If muggers killed people with great frequency, there would be lights everywhere and no one would go out at night.

whats a person have to do to you for you to stand up for yourself?

if someone comes up to me and punches me or whatever, sure, I'll punch them back. If someone physically attacks me, I'll defend my self. However, up until the point where I'm attacked, I'm willing to give up the contents of my wallet to avoid getting stabbed or shot. If a mugger came after me and didn't have a weapon, I might try running or fighting. However, I don't and never will carry a weapon, and I'm not taking on someone with a weapon. Do you know how badly they can kick your ass before it kills you? I plan on not finding out. It's rather impressive how much punishment the human body can take, but that's no reason to try it. I'm not a coward, but I'm not an idiot.

 

[Ben_t]

I don't consider it violence until they cause you physical pain.

Well your vision of violence must be similar to most 5 years old kids I encounter.

It's actually a good assumption - why the fuck would he want a murder charge? Most muggings do not end in someone being shot. I think this alone supports my theory that the mugger doesn't want to kill you, he just wants your wallet.

Your theory is retarded. Just because most muggings don't end up with someone dying doesn't make your theory good. Muggers don't care about theft charge...why would some of them care about murder charge? Plus you have to be caught to be charged which is doubtful...

Low occurance, high risk...

Actually, what I'm saying is rational and based in logic, rather than based in ignorance and a belief in the power of annecdotal evidence.

Yeah because logic can always be used to analyze acts of violence. Where will you logic be when a mugger decide to stab you (or shoot you) because he wants to make sure you won't identify him? It might seem illogic to you...how do you know it's not his logic?

I'm not saying that. I'm saying your odds are better if you don't pull a gun.

Like I said before, pulling a gun in this situation might not be possible or practical and could get you killed in a situation where you could have lived. But who knows...

I won't even waste my time answering the rest of what you type...

 

[Rob "Klister"]

so you'll only defend yourself if the odds are good?

 

[waif]

Yes.
I think it makes sense not to fight if you have the option not to fight, you can't win the fight, and losing means hospitalization or death.
Apparently this belief is stupid and wrong.

 

[Rob "Klister"]

even if you don't fight you still lose when the guy walks away with your stuff.

 

[waif]

So? At least I'm not in the hospital. If I fought, I'd lose my stuff, and either A) be dead, or B) be hospitalized, in which case I also have to pay medical bills.

 

[skeptik]

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/lethalforce.html

Immediate, means "at this very second."
There is literally nothing more dangerous to you and your family than *not* understanding what is meant by "immediate" or "imminent" (depending on which term your state uses). This idea cuts through *all* emotions, fears, thoughts and suspicions and defines when you are - in the eyes of the law - justified to use lethal force.

If he isn't trying to kill you right now, you aren't justified to use lethal force.

It doesn't matter if he is standing there screaming and threatening to kill you, or if has said that he is going to come back and get you or -- in many states -- has just pointed a gun at you, demanded your wallet and is now running away -- those are not considered "immediate threat of death or grave bodily injury." Because he isn't trying to kill you at that exact moment.

Not understanding the meaning of this term will put you in prison for murder. At the very least it will endanger everything you own to litigation....and, odds are, you will lose if you pulled the trigger at the wrong time.

In theory, someone standing across the room waving a knife threatening to kill you isn't offering you an immediate threat. Which means that you cannot legally shoot him. On the other hand, when he starts charging across the room, then you are in immediate and immanent danger of death or previous bodily harm. The reason being is that a knife is a close range weapon and by rushing at you, he is now capable of harming you. Now granted his brandishing the weapon in a threatening manner is in and of itself a crime, but not enough to warrant shooting him.

Now that is theory, in reality this is somewhat of a grey area. Not only does it depend on whose lawyer is better, but also the laws of the particular state (or country), what the legal precedents are there and what is the current local interpretation is. In one court you might be acquitted for shooting him while he is drawing the gun, whereas in others you will be convicted if you shoot before he has fired the first shot.

At the very best of times it is a very, very slippery slope.

Unfortunately, a situation that has spun so far out of control that deadly force was used, is very seldom the best of times.

 

[Krigloch the Furious]

Standard Springfield GI .45. I like "no frills" weapons myself; I love how you can drop a mountain on it and it still fires.

The STI Trojan is a great gun for the money; of course all of this depends on what you use it for and where. It's a damn beauty too.

target shooing and self defense. aka .45 acp
I'll probably get some tritium night sights on there too.

WeAreInFlames
You have a fucking warped view of the world

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Muggers don't care about theft charge...why would some of them care about murder charge?

wat

What does Canada have, like a life sentence for thievery? Crap point, murder charge = much much worse than theft (petty or grand).

 

[Rob "Klister"]

but if he kills you, then theres no witnesses to turn him in.

 

[Ender Rises]

Uh huh. Even though there's crime scene evidence, someone probably saw him going to or from the crime scene, there may be cameras in the area that caught a picture of him... etc. etc.

 

[ThisIsACoolName]

It's not self defense if they wouldn't attack you. Just because they point a gun at you doesn't mean they'll use it.

Are you fucking stupid?

 

[Ender Rises]

If they point a gun at you, that is the ultimate in threat against your life. That's the equivalent of someone holding a knife to your throat. Are you telling me that if someone pointed a gun at you you wouldn't fear for your life?

(@ WAIF)