The thread about guns and stuff like that!

wat

What does Canada have, like a life sentence for thievery? Crap point, murder charge = much much worse than theft (petty or grand).

Maybe the way I express myself in English is bad or something...

I know that charges are not the same..duh.

What I was trying to explain (in response to Weareinflames... who stated that muggers just want you wallet and that's it....) is, how can you assume that's always going to be the case? Don't you think that it's possible that someone who's willing to rob you in the first place might not care that much about killing you either (even though the sentence would obviously not be the same). The way I said it before sounded clear to me....

I guess what I meant was more: "Muggers don't care about theft charge...why would ALL of them care about murder charge?" I understand how it sounded weird the way I said it.
 
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/lethalforce.html

Immediate, means "at this very second."
There is literally nothing more dangerous to you and your family than *not* understanding what is meant by "immediate" or "imminent" (depending on which term your state uses). This idea cuts through *all* emotions, fears, thoughts and suspicions and defines when you are - in the eyes of the law - justified to use lethal force.

If he isn't trying to kill you right now, you aren't justified to use lethal force.

It doesn't matter if he is standing there screaming and threatening to kill you, or if has said that he is going to come back and get you or -- in many states -- has just pointed a gun at you, demanded your wallet and is now running away -- those are not considered "immediate threat of death or grave bodily injury." Because he isn't trying to kill you at that exact moment.

Not understanding the meaning of this term will put you in prison for murder. At the very least it will endanger everything you own to litigation....and, odds are, you will lose if you pulled the trigger at the wrong time.

In theory, someone standing across the room waving a knife threatening to kill you isn't offering you an immediate threat. Which means that you cannot legally shoot him. On the other hand, when he starts charging across the room, then you are in immediate and immanent danger of death or previous bodily harm. The reason being is that a knife is a close range weapon and by rushing at you, he is now capable of harming you. Now granted his brandishing the weapon in a threatening manner is in and of itself a crime, but not enough to warrant shooting him.

Now that is theory, in reality this is somewhat of a grey area. Not only does it depend on whose lawyer is better, but also the laws of the particular state (or country), what the legal precedents are there and what is the current local interpretation is. In one court you might be acquitted for shooting him while he is drawing the gun, whereas in others you will be convicted if you shoot before he has fired the first shot.

At the very best of times it is a very, very slippery slope.

Unfortunately, a situation that has spun so far out of control that deadly force was used, is very seldom the best of times.
Thank you.
To everyone else: told you.
Rob "Klister";7139508 said:
but if he kills you, then theres no witnesses to turn him in.
...that's thinking rationally. First off, muggers are humans too - many of them are doing this not by choice but necessity. They don't want to hurt anyone if they don't have to. Some of them don't care about killing. But there's no incentive to kill. Cops rarely bother to investigate muggings. They do investigate murders.

Are you fucking stupid?
No. See above.

If they point a gun at you, that is the ultimate in threat against your life. That's the equivalent of someone holding a knife to your throat. Are you telling me that if someone pointed a gun at you you wouldn't fear for your life?

(@ WAIF)

Yes, I would be scared. I'd be so scared, I wouldn't pull a gun on him.
Obviously, if you get stuck up, it's a bad situation. Your best odds of getting out in one piece are to cooperate, because the mugger has no incentive to hurt you, and it's best for everyone if things go smoothly. Therefore, if you give them your shit you'll almost certainly get away with no physical harm, no police charges, and no hospital bills (which would probably cost more than the cell phone and whatever's in your wallet).

Bottom line, don't carry more cash than you need, be smart about where you go, don't be an idiot if you get mugged, and you'll be fine. It's worked for my entire family for generations.
 
Why are people too stupid to not realize the difference between defending yourself more broadly and using lethal force? If somebody doesn't even pull a gun on you, you really have no justification to shoot them.
 
For example, if they just tell you they have a gun. In which case, while it would be stupid to assume they don't, you have no justification to start shooting.