who's the best in COB??

[FAITHKILLER]

But there IS feeling in music - that's all what I meant.

Thanks
May I rewrite your sentence and make it like this?

there IS feeling , created by the interaction of the brain with the music!

 

[(__Joonas__)]

The feeling is created by the composer by creating music that resonates the intended states of mind and is then transferred onto the listener. Everyone can tell apart aggressive music from sorrowful music, not just by tempo, but the nature of the melodies.

 

[FAITHKILLER]

The feeling is created by the composer by creating music that resonates the intended states of mind and is then transferred onto the listener. Everyone can tell apart aggressive music from sorrowful music, not just by tempo, but the nature of the melodies.

Oh! a pretty perfect one.

thanks DR.Joonas

 

[snowy]

wtf?! its like food or anything else. some people like it (and then even maybe feel it when it comes to music) some people just dont like it

thats what that guy called response. its just a not very romantic word for feeling.

 

[eveningninja]

What I don't understand is why every debate between the technical skill of two guitarists ends with one side saying "oh, well it's not really about the technique, I'm listening for the creativity or the feeling!" "So-and-so may have skill, but this other guitarist writes such good stuff!" Great. That just makes it even more obvious that from the very beginning you were arguing with emotions and bias backing your original statements. This isn't really a subjective matter we're discussing here. Technique is technique. Economy, efficiency, complexity/speed of licks played... can all be measured. The feelings of lakes and trees that j00nas feels while listening to CoB cannot be measured. So why bother even arguing about who's a better composer? It's rather pointless really.

This is not true. Someone can sing with or without feeling, especially singer like Beyonce, Alicia Keys, Christina Aguilera and so on... all those ballads. Alexi for example definitely played the NMF chorus with feeling.

What unit of measurement do you use to measure "feeling"? Throw in some vibrato and volume swells? How can you tell if the singer is doing that based on feeling or based on the technical decision to perform those rather standardized techniques?

Does it matter if he/she is making faces or not while singing? Does a scrunched up, painful-looking, eyes-closed face and/or an enclosed fist mean the singer is singing with more feeling? I'm sure you and many people would come to that conclusion, but the fact IS that stuff like that is actually planned out beforehand. Performers are also actors, and it's their job to make the audience "FEEL" stuff, but it doesn't necessarily require that the singer is feeling that. They may very well be, and often are especially if he/she wrote the song as well or has come to relate to it in a personal way, but it's not always the case. Music is a business.

 

[Norbix]

Greatness is measured with a few factors. Technique, style, influence, originality, and popularity. That said, who is greater will also depend to whom you're asking the question. If you ask a guitar player who is greater, most will respond with Gilbert because they recognize his technique, influence, and his style is popular amongst guitar players. On the other hand, if you ask a random person who is greater they will likely tell you Alexi because he is more popular and influential in the grand scheme of things. What it all boils down to is overall opinion. Most people are not guitar players. Therefore, I would probably categorize Alexi as the greater player because he does much more for the scene. When is the last time Gilbert has played at a crowd like Wacken? Does Gilbert have his guitar in every fucking guitar center? Take Kirk Hammet for example. He's definitely not the best technically, and all of you probably hate the shit out of him (most likely due to some nonsensical innate reaction of lolFUCKUMETALLICANUB) but he's without a doubt greater than Alexi and Gilbert put together.

And what the fuck is wrong with you people trying to downplay feeling in playing? The unit of measurement for feeling is appreciation... or passion. Lots of good music isn't the result of some bullshit technical decision, but the passion someone puts into their guitar which results in some awesome stuff. I sincerely doubt while writing the new album Alexi suddenly decided, "hmmm, this lead bit in SKO would probably sound better if I added some over-exaggerated bends and vibrato."

 

[eveningninja]

Take Kirk Hammet for example. He's definitely not the best technically, and all of you probably hate the shit out of him (most likely due to some nonsensical innate reaction of lolFUCKUMETALLICANUB) but he's without a doubt greater than Alexi and Gilbert put together.

Um... Again, we were actually talking about technical skill of guitar playing, not some fabled definition of "greatness" which you pulled out of your ass.

And what the fuck is wrong with you people trying to downplay feeling in playing? The unit of measurement for feeling is appreciation... or passion.

Oh silly me... CoB's latest album has about 4 passions, whereas Follow The Reaper had 9 passions, respectively. amidoingitrite??

Lots of good music isn't the result of some bullshit technical decision...

Moot point. Lots of good music is.

I sincerely doubt while writing the new album Alexi suddenly decided, "hmmm, this lead bit in SKO would probably sound better if I added some over-exaggerated bends and vibrato."

I hope you don't ever decide to become a music producer. That is actually exactly what happens all the time. Your ignorance amazes me, good job.

 

[predator2353]

The feelings of lakes and trees that j00nas feels while listening to CoB cannot be measured. So why bother even arguing about who's a better composer? It's rather pointless really.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

The feelings of lakes and trees that j00nas feels while listening to CoB cannot be measured. So why bother even arguing about who's a better composer? It's rather pointless really.

Well I actually call that atmosphere, it's related to feeling but it's a different thing. And yes there's no technical way to measure it.

 

[SteveMCsteve]

Most people who obnoxiously say "FEELING IS THE KEY!!!111!!" always associate bends and vibratos with "emotions". But bends and vibratos are techniques used by players. Without proper techniques you cannot deliver "feelings". Arguing about which one is more important is pointless like eveningninja said.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I wouldn't say a bend or vibrato is enough for feeling... it's just a spice on a note of a melody. And I can't see all the feeling in the Not My Funeral pre-chorus, it's just pinch harmonics that create no emotion.

 

[<Arcane>]

eveningninja, as the smartass of this thread, do you really think there is no "feeling" in music and that it's all business? do you really think that Paul Gilbert would say if you ask if him if he plays with feeling "No. There's no feeling in my music. All is just from my awesome technique."?

And I can't see all the feeling in the Not My Funeral pre-chorus, it's just pinch harmonics that create no emotion.

Don't get the point of this sentence because there are no pinch harmonics in the pre-chorus and nobody was talking about this part.

 

[iPot]

Don't get the point of this sentence because there are no pinch harmonics in the pre-chorus and nobody was talking about this part.

Joonas is his normal retarded self and probably means the natural harmonics.

 

[eveningninja]

eveningninja, as the smartass of this thread, do you really think there is no "feeling" in music and that it's all business? do you really think that Paul Gilbert would say if you ask if him if he plays with feeling "No. There's no feeling in my music. All is just from my awesome technique."?

You're not really seeing my point. This feeling which you speak of is not objectively implanted into the music for everyone to feel. As others have said, feeling is sparked from your individual reaction to the music, and that is all subjective. Depends on your experiences throughout life, your personal tastes which may have evolved from who knows where/how. Plenty of people like sludge/doom metal and claim there is a lot of feeling in it, but when I listen to it I honestly feel no feeling. Am I wrong to think so? All the artist can do is be genuine about his or her music, some people will have feelings about it, others it won't do anything for. That is life.

And about PG having "feeling" in his music, you're switching between talking about pop singers who do not write most of their own music to a very skilled guitarist who does write all his own music. Two different examples... which would you like to talk about? Obviously PG has "feeling" in his music, it'll take that kind of self-drive and motivation to become successful when you don't corporations of songwriters and marketers behind you, forging the way to success. But your previous example - a pop singer singing some hit song written for her is not required to have "feeling." Maybe she does, maybe she doesn't, but you can't judge that by your own personal taste for the music.

 

[Norbix]

Um... Again, we were actually talking about technical skill of guitar playing, not some fabled definition of "greatness" which you pulled out of your ass.

The thread is about who is the 'best'. Greatness is a synonym for who is better. If you narrow down a comparison between guitar players completely on technicality then you're simply a dumbass.

As others have said, feeling is sparked from your individual reaction to the music, and that is all subjective.

FFS, no it isn't. Are you purposely being dense? Feeling is someone putting their style and passion into how he manipulates the strings, and it's a unique thing. It's not what someone gets out of someone else's playing. Have you heard of blues? I hate that shit, but I recognize the fact that the players are putting their hearts and souls into the music. And you know what they say about Blues.. you can't play it unless you've got it. You don't have to appreciate or hate feeling in order to recognize it.

There's simply so many things you can't play unless you've got the passion for it. Example: Do you think he can just pick up a guitar at any time and play that the way he did? For that you have to be in a certain mood to playing with the right feeling.

Do you even play any instruments or sing? Have you never let the music take control over you? Feeling is playing with the heart and not the brain.

I'm going to quote some passage I found on the internet of someone talking about playing with feeling:

Simply explained, feeling is like an artist painting a canvas. The final product can be a mess of color or a nice painting. Same with music. If you have the necessary technique to execute what you feel, the guitar becomes part of you and you become part of the guitar. Its like a marriage.

When you play with feeling, you are expressing the modd you are in at that particular moment. I can't see someone playing a sad song if he just won a million dollar. On the other hand, you can mimic the feeling of sadness and do a decent job.

Shredding has nothing to do with feeling. Anybody can shred. Van halen doesn't shred yet he communicates what he feels with short spunky riff. Randy Rhoads played with much feeling. His riff weren't super fast but they were technical and demanded some good fingering skills to play them. Malsteem feels but never like Van halen, Rhoades. Listen to Steve Vai and Satriani especially. They use their instrument as if it was their voice and do a darn good job at it.

In the end, you need to have the necessary technique and knowledge of some theory to fully express what you are feeling or what you want to tansmit as a feeling. Otherwise, you are limited to express a tiny vocabulary of what you know how to play but not necessarily, what you are singing in your head.
When you get to the point of singing what you play, you are on the right track to achieving this

 

[<Arcane>]

You're not really seeing my point. This feeling which you speak of is not objectively implanted into the music for everyone to feel. As others have said, feeling is sparked from your individual reaction to the music, and that is all subjective. Depends on your experiences throughout life, your personal tastes which may have evolved from who knows where/how. Plenty of people like sludge/doom metal and claim there is a lot of feeling in it, but when I listen to it I honestly feel no feeling. Am I wrong to think so? All the artist can do is be genuine about his or her music, some people will have feelings about it, others it won't do anything for. That is life.

And about PG having "feeling" in his music, you're switching between talking about pop singers who do not write most of their own music to a very skilled guitarist who does write all his own music. Two different examples... which would you like to talk about? Obviously PG has "feeling" in his music, it'll take that kind of self-drive and motivation to become successful when you don't corporations of songwriters and marketers behind you, forging the way to success. But your previous example - a pop singer singing some hit song written for her is not required to have "feeling." Maybe she does, maybe she doesn't, but you can't judge that by your own personal taste for the music.

This is by far the biggest bullshit I've hear from you. Sorry.

 

[MaximHateCrew]

Hey dudes, there are differents way to understand the word 'feeling' so.. don't try to get the ONE meaning because there isn't. But you could find an agreement to talk about that. Otherwise it's not going to end...

 

[eveningninja]

This is by far the biggest bullshit I've hear from you. Sorry.

Compelling argument! I could've said the same thing to you, but I have an actual basis of logic behind what I'm saying, and therefore don't choose to essentially reply with a: "no u"

But I'll take it you have nothing left to argue with. Good day.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Uh... so now feeling is the way a guitar player manipulates his strings? I was talking about something completely else, so I drop off this convo. I ment feeling as like melody, not bends and vibration... You guitarists live in a realm of your own. Can't you just accept both feeling and technicality are important?

 

[Aleksi]

Uh... so now feeling is the way a guitar player manipulates his strings? I was talking about something completely else, so I drop off this convo. I ment feeling as like melody, not bends and vibration... You guitarists live in a realm of your own. Can't you just accept both feeling and technicality are important?

No, I can't, I fully support everything eveningninja has said. Admittedly, I wouldn't play the Gilbert card so much but he's still right.
Feeling is entirely within people/living things, it is a subjective reaction to a stimulus. Sonically, there is no such thing as feeling, though sound can be a stimulus, causing feeling in an individual. The feeling is not inherent in the music, it is a secondary quality (a power within the thing to act on another thing).
To use Galileo's example, imagine a hand moving - the hand is in motion and this is a quality that belongs to the hand. Now, imagine that the hand is moving over e.g. the ribs or feet, a tickling sensation may be produced in the one whose ribs/feet they are, as a result of the motion of the hand. The hand is still only indulging in the quality of motion but the motion has the power to cause us to experience the tickling sensation - tickles do not exist in the external world, tickling is not a primary quality of the hand; it is produced entirely within the person.
Feeling is the exact same way.