Do you consider Slipknot to be Metal?

[Base Delta Zero]

Hendrix was good. Damn good. Great. The two aren't comperable.

You have the benefit of knowing the historic, influential legacy of Hendrix, whereas a '60s hippie didn't.

I agree with you anyways, Hendrix is a rock-god whose genius and talent is far greater than 99% of the music nowadays.

I just don't understand the OCD-categorizational tendencies of some metal-heads.

 

[Hatebreeder]

I just don't understand the OCD-categorizational tendencies of some metal-heads.

It is a strange tendency, to say the least.

 

[Black Core]

I agree with you anyways, Hendrix is a rock-god whose genius and talent is far greater than 99% of the music nowadays.

well 13 year olds think the same about Slipknot these days

 

[thisisaformicatable]

I'm not really offended by it, I just think it's bizarre that ppl think they are not metal just because a bunch of 13 year olds listen to them.

Did you read the thread or are you just retarded?

 

[A8]

is slipknot metal?
in my opinion....hell no
but technically....i think yes, some form of it anyway

 

[Hatebreeder]

I hope that the growing popularity of bands like Behemoth, Dimmu Borgir, and Nile will inspire a new generation of young metalheads to bring our favorite underground bands to the forefront.

Though many would fervently disagree.

 

[paranoidmexican009]

alright heres how i see it. even though i hate nu-metal, it is metal. so slipknot is a metal band. thats how i see it.

 

[A8]

I hope that the growing popularity of bands like Behemoth, Dimmu Borgir, and Nile will inspire a new generation of young metalheads to bring our favorite underground bands to the forefront.

Though many would fervently disagree.

everyone should listen to Behemoth and Dimmu Borgir

 

[Gold]

I hope that the growing popularity of bands like Behemoth, Dimmu Borgir, and Nile will inspire a new generation of young metalheads to bring our favorite underground bands to the forefront.

Though many would fervently disagree.

most metal/deathcore bands that everyone seems to hate were inspired by those bands ,or bands like that though. so i don't think that would change much

 

[Sabin Frost]

Please review the topic, the argument I was responding to was that Slipknot is metal because they have metal riffs. I was showing that no, Slipknot do not have metal riffs. Are Bathory and Darkthrone metal *because* they have punk influence in their riffing?


Spoken words and shredding are characteristics unique to metal?


So the only metal influence they have is Morbid Angel? Please expand on where you see this influence in their music, and how this overrides all the other non-metal influences in their music and makes them undeniably metal.


Ok, by my count that makes 20% of their influences metal. What are you on about?


It has more in common with hardcore than metal but it's still metal? Isn't that like saying thrash has more in common with metal than punk but it's still punk?


?!?


Ultimately you have a very confused and inadequate understanding of what metal is and its relationships with other genres of music.


I was picking feature parts of the songs. Let's look at some of their more "metal" tunes, according to Sabin Frost:

"Scissors"

pm
e-----------------------------------------------------------------
b-----------------------------------------------------------------
g-4---x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
d-----------------------------------------------------------------
a-----------------------------------------------------------------
a-----------------------------------------------------------------

x2
e-----------------------------------------------------------------
b-----------------------------------------------------------------
g-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
d-----------------------------------------------------------------
a-----------------------------------------------------------------
a-----------------------------------------------------------------

e-----------------------------------------------0-0-0-0-----------
b-------------------------------0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-------------------
g-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-----------------------------------
d-----------------------------------------------------------------
a-----------------------------------------------------------------
a---------------------------------------------------------12\-----

e-----------------------------------------------------------------
b-----------------------------------------------------------------
g-----------------------------------------------------------------
d-----------------------------------------------------------------
a-0-1-----0------0-1-----0------0-1------0-----0-1----------0-----
a-0-1-----0------0-1-----0------0-1------0-----0-1----------0-----

e-----------------------------------------------------------------
b-----------------------------------------------------------------
g-----------------------------------------------------------------
d-----------------------------------------------------------------
a-11-1-1-1-1--------11-1-1-1-1--------11-1-1-1-1--------11-1-1-1-1
a-11-1-1-1-1--------11-1-1-1-1--------11-1-1-1-1--------11-1-1-1-1

e-----------------------------------------------------------------
b-----------------------------------------------------------------
g-----------------------------------------------------------------
d-----------------------------------------------------------------
a-0-1---0-0---0-1---0-0--0-0---0-1---0-0---0-1---0-0--0-0---------
a-0-1---0-0---0-1---0-0--0-0---0-1---0-0---0-1---0-0--0-0---------

"Opium Of The People"
|-13-14-13-14-13-14-13-14-13-14-13-14-13-14-13-14-|-16-14-13------------------------------|
|-------------------------------------------------|----------16-14-16-14-13---------------|
|-------------------------------------------------|-------------------------16-14-13-15-13|
|-------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------|
|-------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------|
|-------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------|

...above is an excerpt from a more rock/metal lead run, but then it's back to the hardcore stuff:

|-----------------------||-------------|------------------|------------------|------------------|
|-----------------------||-------------|------------------|------------------|------------------|
|-----------------------||-------------|------------------|------------------|------------------|
|-----------------------||-------------|------------------|------------------|------------------|
|---4--1--0-------------||--5/-1-1-1-0-|--4-1-0--5/-1-1-0-|--4-1-0--5/-1-1-0-|--4-1-0--5/-1-1-0-|
|---4--1--0--4-5-6-7~~~~||-----1-1-1-0-|--4-1-0-----1-1-0-|--4-1-0-----1-1-0-|--4-1-0-----1-1-0-|

"Skin Ticket"

e-----------------------------------------------------------------
b-----------------------------------------------------------------
g-----------------------------------------------------------------
d-----------------------------------------------------------------
a-----------------------------------------------------------------
d-0-0-0-0-8-8-8-8-7-5-7-7-7-7-7-7-0-0-0-0-8-8-8-8-7-5-7-7-7-0-0-0-

...vaguely metal at first glance, but then here comes the chorus:

e-----------------------------------------------------------------
b-----------------------------------------------------------------
g-----------------------------------------------------------------
d-----------------------------------------------------------------
a-0-1---0--0-1----0-0-1---0-1---0--0-1----0-0-1-------------------
d-0-1---0--0-1----0-0-1---0-1---0--0-1----0-0-1-------------------

"The Nameless"

    C#|-----------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------|
    G#|-----------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------|
    E |-----------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------|
    B |-2-2--3-3-3-3-2-2-0-0--2-2-2-2-2-2-|-2-2--3-3-3-3-2-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-|
    F#|-2-2--3-3-3-3-2-2-0-0--2-2-2-2-2-2-|-2-2--3-3-3-3-2-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-|
    B |-2-2--3-3-3-3-2-2-0-0--2-2-2-2-2-2-|-2-2--3-3-3-3-2-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-|

    C#|---------------------------------------------------------------|
    G#|---------------------------------------------------------------|
    E |---10---10---10---10---10---10---10---10---10---10---10---10-8-|
    B |-8----8----8----8----8----8----8----8----7----7----7----7----6-|
    F#|---------------------------------------------------------------|
    B |---------------------------------------------------------------|

    C#|-----------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------|
    G#|-----------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------|
    E |-----------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------|
    B |-0-0-1-1-1-1-0-0--0-0--0-0-0-0-0-0-|-0-0-1-1-1-1-0-0--0-0--1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-|
    F#|-0-0-1-1-1-1-0-0--0-0--0-0-0-0-0-0-|-0-0-1-1-1-1-0-0--0-0--1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-|
    B |-0-0-1-1-1-1-0-0--0-0--0-0-0-0-0-0-|-0-0-1-1-1-1-0-0--0-0--1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-|

"Iowa"

E----------------------------------
B----------------------------------
G----------------------------------
D-----2^-2-2-0---------------------
A-----2^-2-2-0---------------------
E-----2^-2-2-0---------------------

Bottom line, the guitar work in Slipknot is not generally metal in nature. Certainly the majority is hardcore influenced. Do you see Morbid Angel in there? Because I see things like Godsmack and Hatebreed.


Morbid Angel, for reference:

"Maze Of Torment"

Riff A
|--------------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------------|
|-------------------9/10---------------------------|
|-7-----9-----7-----7/-8--7-----9-----7------------|
|-5-000-7-000-5-000-------5-000-7-000-5-111111111--|
pm  

Riff B
|--------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------|
|-10-------8/9--------8/9--------------------|
|-8--------6/7--------6/7---9/10---8----6-7--|
|----0-000------0-000-----0-7/-8-0-6--9------|
pm

Look at the big picture: Slipknot is not a metal band trying to play metal, they are a band combining hardcore/grindcore/industrial/alternative/hard rock/rapcore/metal/etc to convey a message that is rooted in alternative rock ("nu metal") themes. The basis of their music, the core, the spirit of it, comes from alternative rock if anything, certainly not metal. That should be the most important determining factor.

1. No, but it was opposed to rap style verses and the general consensus that there are no solos in Nu Metal.

2. One of their influences, the only one I mentioned, not the only one.

3. You must have failed maths, I mentioned the influences, not the percentages. Some of those influences are far more minor then others but they are still all influences. Dont forget, the biggest influence behind Slayer was punk.

4. The way that statement was supposed to be taken was that its roots are firmer placed in hardcore then metal, I was trying to say that Grindcore came from hardcore not metal but is metal.

5. Many of the earlier metal bands are also considered Hard Rock bands, Bands like Black Sabbath teeter between the two classifications and a lot of more mainstream bands such as The Butterfly Effect who play a style of Melodic Hard Rock are borderline between what is rock and what is metal due to their being no definitive concrete boundary between the two.

6. You are focusing solely on the guitars under the assumption they are the lead instrument, the band is percussion based, not string, and it is hard to compare bands with four members to nine. Yes, the riffs are more hardcore orientated but so are Slayers. Last I checked hardcore was not done in C# Drop B tuning generally and the bass is very different.

7. Slipknot are a metal band, trying to play metal with a lot of influences brought about mostly by Clown's pseudo-intellectual take on music. It is chaotic at best and the lines between what elements of their sound are what is sometimes hard to distinguish but it sounds metal and it has more in common with metal as a whole then anything else mentioned bar the exception of their softer music and singles.

 

[rfe]

everyone should listen to Behemoth and Dimmu Borgir

Only one of those bands I agree with, and they don't start with a D.

 

[Crimson Velvet]

Last I checked hardcore was not done in C# Drop B tuning generally and the bass is very different.

Last time I checked, it doesn't really matter how you're tuning your guitar, when you're playing a fucking hardcore riff!

Besides, Slipknot doesn't possess then spirit of metal, so all this arguing about theory is quite useless.

 

[Black Core]

are you just retarded?

[/irony]

I hope that the growing popularity of bands like Behemoth, Dimmu Borgir, and Nile will inspire a new generation of young metalheads to bring our favorite underground bands to the forefront.

Though many would fervently disagree.

I think alot of youngsters will get to these bands in time (at least I did) but not when 60% of the ppl say that they are retarded for listening to slipknot.

 

[thisisaformicatable]

1. No, but it was opposed to rap style verses and the general consensus that there are no solos in Nu Metal.

But there are solos in many other genres, and spoken word isn't even that common in metal. So these are poor arguments for calling Slipknot metal.

2. One of their influences, the only one I mentioned, not the only one.

You missed the important part:

"Please expand on where you see this influence in their music, and how this overrides all the other non-metal influences in their music and makes them undeniably metal."

3. You must have failed maths, I mentioned the influences, not the percentages. Some of those influences are far more minor then others but they are still all influences.

So stop dancing around and explain your position on this point.

Dont forget, the biggest influence behind Slayer was punk.

No, the primary influence behind Slayer was metal. The punk influence complimented the metal core. If the biggest influence on Slayer was punk then they would be a punk band.

4. The way that statement was supposed to be taken was that its roots are firmer placed in hardcore then metal, I was trying to say that Grindcore came from hardcore not metal but is metal.

Why? How can a punk subgenre be metal? How is this different from calling thrash metal punk?

5. Many of the earlier metal bands are also considered Hard Rock bands, Bands like Black Sabbath teeter between the two classifications and a lot of more mainstream bands such as The Butterfly Effect who play a style of Melodic Hard Rock are borderline between what is rock and what is metal due to their being no definitive concrete boundary between the two.

Again, this just seems like you have a fuzzy conception of what metal is all about.

6. You are focusing solely on the guitars under the assumption they are the lead instrument, the band is percussion based, not string, and it is hard to compare bands with four members to nine. Yes, the riffs are more hardcore orientated but so are Slayers.

Slayer didn't start using hardcore oriented riffs in abundance until the late 1990s when people started calling them nu metal, so I'm not sure how well that argument holds up.

Last I checked hardcore was not done in C# Drop B tuning...

Last I checked not much metal is either.

7. Slipknot are a metal band, trying to play metal with a lot of influences brought about mostly by Clown's pseudo-intellectual take on music. It is chaotic at best and the lines between what elements of their sound are what is sometimes hard to distinguish but it sounds metal and it has more in common with metal as a whole then anything else mentioned bar the exception of their softer music and singles.

How can you even say they are trying to play metal? Look at the intent of their music, what they are trying to convey - how can you kid yourself for one second that this band is trying to be metal? This is the most important consideration, as art there is virtually *nothing* Slipknot has in common with metal, and musically we have clearly shown that their influence lies elsewhere.

You have failed to prove first that there is significant metal influence in Slipknot, and second that this influence is the primary element in their music. And the second point is as far as I can see impossible to prove, as the primary element, the core, the main message is not something familiar and integral to metal, but "I'm different, I'm special, I don't fit in, no one understands me, etc.". This should scream 1990s hard alternative rock (nu metal) to you, not metal.

[/irony]

Just pointing out that when people have written dozens of reasons why Slipknot may be metal that posting "I just think it's bizarre that ppl think they are not metal just because a bunch of 13 year olds listen to them" makes it seem like you probably aren't really keeping up with the discussion.

 

[Ender Rises]

Can we just let this thread die please?

 

[thisisaformicatable]

Can we just let this thread die please?

There are other threads you can click on that will surely be less distressing for you.

 

[Ender Rises]

Stop being such an ass. This thread has been ran over and ran over, all the arguments said. If people want to continue it fine but I just feel it's time to let it die.

 

[Cythraul]

Can we just let this thread die please?

Why do you care?

 

[thisisaformicatable]

Stop being such an ass. This thread has been ran over and ran over, all the arguments said. If people want to continue it fine but I just feel it's time to let it die.

Well, I am curiously waiting for a number of responses, including an explanation of Morbid Angel's impact on Slipknot's music. No one ever learned anything by not having a discussion about it.

 

[Ender Rises]

Well then I apologize, have fun with the thread.