Iconoclast: News/Info Thread

[Frontal Lobotomy]

I feel that 99% of people out there have the ability to learn how to sing decently through study and practise.
To become a true master, it takes these things, combined with natural ability.

Isn't this true about everything?

 

[_Gentleman of_the Snow_]

Isn't this true about everything?

Definitely

I just think that too many people rely on the "natural touch" as an excuse as to why they cannot personally sing well.

How often does that person actually practise? Never.
Do they expect to play guitar perfectly without practise? No... Why is singing any different?

 

[Frontal Lobotomy]

Definitely

I just think that too many people rely on the "natural touch" as an excuse as to why they cannot personally sing well.

How often does that person actually practise? Never.
Do they expect to play guitar perfectly without practise? No... Why is singing any different?

Because they are influenced by American Idol?

I definitely know that there is a markable difference in the sound of my voice in the periods when I take it seriously and practice every day, as opposed to the periods when I don't.

I've noticed a curious thing, which is probably a ''DUH'' kind of moment, but since I don't read about this stuff, I wouldn't know. Your vocal cords are controlled by muscles, right? And if you don't use them, they ...how do you call it..dwindle? Just as the other muscles in your body. But muscles that have been trained before reach the same top ''strength'' quicker when you start training again then the first time around. Like muscle memory. Does that sound right? Or is that just me?

 

[Prog is King]

I feel that 99% of people out there have the ability to learn how to sing decently through study and practise.
To become a true master, it takes these things, combined with natural ability.

Isn't this true about everything?

Definitely

I just think that too many people rely on the "natural touch" as an excuse as to why they cannot personally sing well.

How often does that person actually practise? Never.
Do they expect to play guitar perfectly without practise? No... Why is singing any different?

Because they are influenced by American Idol?

I definitely know that there is a markable difference in the sound of my voice in the periods when I take it seriously and practice every day, as opposed to the periods when I don't.

I've noticed a curious thing, which is probably a ''DUH'' kind of moment, but since I don't read about this stuff, I wouldn't know. Your vocal cords are controlled by muscles, right? And if you don't use them, they ...how do you call it..dwindle? Just as the other muscles in your body. But muscles that have been trained before reach the same top ''strength'' quicker when you start training again then the first time around. Like muscle memory. Does that sound right? Or is that just me?

I still maintain that one has to have some natural ability to be able to sing well. You have to be able to carry a tune. I do believe that practice makes a good singer better. But if you can't sing,
no amount of practice will help. Most of the poor saps on American Idol can't sing a lick and are victims of their families and/or friends not having the heart to tell them that they are horrible.
I think the number of people who can sing or learn to is more like 10-15%. Otherwise everyone
would be a singer.

As Postulate says, "you've got to have a great set of pipes".

 

[PurpleDink]

Let's not forget though(and I've said this before) that what makes Russell the greatest vocalist in the world isn't even mainly the technical prowess stuff; it is his uncanny penchant for the unbelievable vocal melodies that he comes up with.
Some of that was lacking on Paradise Lost; let us hope there are more on Iconoclast.

Like a razah, swimming in a sea of rage, vindicataz masqueradaz, ALL THE WORLDS MY STAGE!

Yeah that part didnt that out at all. :roll eyes:

 

[Sep3]

I still maintain that one has to have some natural ability to be able to sing well. You have to be able to carry a tune. I do believe that practice makes a good singer better. But if you can't sing,
no amount of practice will help. Most of the poor saps on American Idol can't sing a lick and are victims of their families and/or friends not having the heart to tell them that they are horrible.
I think the number of people who can sing or learn to is more like 10-15%. Otherwise everyone
would be a singer.

As Postulate says, "you've got to have a great set of pipes".

Are you a vocalist or where does this knowledge come from? It's obvious that everyone's voice is different because it's a natural instrument, but anyone can produce the sound with enough training. It's all about muscles and control. I seriously doubt anyone can become a weightlifter overnight, so why could they become a vocalist without training? Batman trained to be a batman, Russell Allen trained to be the Russell Allen we know. It's not magic.

Like a razah, swimming in a sea of rage, vindicataz masqueradaz, ALL THE WORLDS MY STAGE!

Yeah that part didnt that out at all. :roll eyes:

Isn't pronunciation rage a bit exaggerated? Americans say it like that, razah, vindicataz. Get over it.

 

[Weston]

Are you a vocalist or where does this knowledge come from? It's obvious that everyone's voice is different because it's a natural instrument, but anyone can produce the sound with enough training. It's all about muscles and control. I seriously doubt anyone can become a weightlifter overnight, so why could they become a vocalist without training? Batman trained to be a batman, Russell Allen trained to be the Russell Allen we know. It's not magic.


Isn't pronunciation rage a bit exaggerated? Americans say it like that, razah, vindicataz. Get over it.

Americans DON'T say it like that haha. wtf are you talking about? Only gangstaz talk that like, in other words uneducated idiots. Why the hell did Russ pronounce it like that? It's awful. And the worst part isnt just the pronunciation it's the vocal melody. Its just so boring and improv like.

 

[Frontal Lobotomy]

Americans DON'T say it like that haha. wtf are you talking about? Only gangstaz talk that like, in other words uneducated idiots. Why the hell did Russ pronounce it like that? It's awful. And the worst part isnt just the pronunciation it's the vocal melody. Its just so boring and improv like.

I have a friend from the Boston area and she pronounces things like that when she is showing me what the dialect is like Don't people from the New York area also talk like that..? Must admit it has never bothered me, I hardly noticed it.

 

[Sep3]

Americans DON'T say it like that haha. wtf are you talking about? Only gangstaz talk that like, in other words uneducated idiots. Why the hell did Russ pronounce it like that? It's awful. And the worst part isnt just the pronunciation it's the vocal melody. Its just so boring and improv like.

Aww. Let's all cry a river for that, shall we.

Maybe not with a distinguishable "z", but razor is definitely more razah than razaa. I got a friend from northeast and he pronounces things really weird. I couldn't really follow him talking about his new bag cos he said it "baeig" or something. I don't really know how local your dialects are, but I suspect they all talk quite weird there.

 

[BARBAROUSSE]

Anyway, I'm interested in the "mechanical" stuff he spoke about. I'm into film music and I think I know what he's getting at. One little example is this thing Hans Zimmer uses sometimes, it's like this 'pulsating' sound texture with (for example) the string section. He calls it the "motor effect". Pretty cool stuff actually.

you read my mind hhh

 

[Postulate]

Only some Americans say 'vindicatah.' Most American dialects are rhotic, including, from what I've seen in interviews, Symphony X's. The syllabic r sound, 'er' however, is often too closed to sing comfortably, and so it is approximated as a schwa, 'eh/ah/'whatever. Try to sing 'rider' loudly and dramatically while producing the 'er' flawlessly and you will see what I mean. It has nothing to do with sounding stupid - this happens all the time in music.

 

[Sep3]

I've been thinking it's more in east/south parts of the country where they say vindiGADRRR, but what the hell do I foreign ape know, really. Singing with the typical ARR sounds would sound extremely stupid imo. The sharp finnish R sounds pretty cool in metal songs tho.

Also, clean s-sound is not very cool in singing either, so I guess it's usually somewhat dampened or bent in the direction of a z-sound. Can't really dampen anything when doing that russell-allen-grit-belting thing, so I guess a kind of z is the only option if the lyrics require so.

 

[Postulate]

The s in 'riders,' 'vindicators,' etc. is always pronounced like a z, though, not just in singing. Or was that not what you were talking about

 

[Sep3]

The s in 'riders,' 'vindicators,' etc. is always pronounced like a z, though, not just in singing. Or was that not what you were talking about

I could've sworn it's with a s, doesn't really sound very zebra to me.. Is s and z also different in certain dialects or is z-s always that soft? What's the fuss about this anyways if it's like you said? Are these people just bad trolls?

Kinda difficult having so many pronounciation rules lol, we just say stuff how it's written. Probably the easiest thing about finnish, only thing you need to know is how to produce the sound for each letter.

 

[Ryan M.]

Give Russ and MJR a beak for their memory... they are gettin' old now haha!

 

[Postulate]

I could've sworn it's with a s, doesn't really sound very zebra to me.. Is s and z also different in certain dialects or is z-s always that soft? What's the fuss about this anyways if it's like you said? Are these people just bad trolls?

Kinda difficult having so many pronounciation rules lol, we just say stuff how it's written. Probably the easiest thing about finnish, only thing you need to know is how to produce the sound for each letter.

Try pronouncing it with an s on the end - riderS verses riderZ. An English speaker will immediately tell you that the first one sounds wrong. It's not really a rule, since most people don't even know what they're doing until you point it out to them, but all languages have sound quirks like that. It depends on the sound that precedes the 's' which one appears, z (vowel or voiced sound like b, v...) or s (voiceless sound like p, f...). Hooray, linguistics is fucking fascinating.

Anyway, the point is that SX are not trying to sound gangsta.

 

[Sep3]

Try pronouncing it with an s on the end - riderS verses riderZ. An English speaker will immediately tell you that the first one sounds wrong. It's not really a rule, since most people don't even know what they're doing until you point it out to them, but all languages have sound quirks like that. It depends on the sound that precedes the 's' which one appears, z (vowel or voiced sound like b, v...) or s (voiceless sound like p, f...). Hooray, linguistics is fucking fascinating.

Anyway, the point is that SX are not trying to sound gangsta.

Linguistics is amazing, yes. And yeah it really is kind of z-ish, plain s seems rather awkward.

This should be quite enough to prove the gangsta accusations absolutely ridiculous even for the dumbest. From now on the whiners can have a blast ridiculing themselves with this subject.

 

[Weston]

Linguistics is amazing, yes. And yeah it really is kind of z-ish, plain s seems rather awkward.

This should be quite enough to prove the gangsta accusations absolutely ridiculous even for the dumbest. From now on the whiners can have a blast ridiculing themselves with this subject.

Riderz isn't Ridaz. Are you even American?

 

[Sep3]

Riderz isn't Ridaz. Are you even American?

Herp fucking derp. I'm not going to reiterate myself or anyone else for that matter. Read the posts if you're going to participate in the conversation.

"Listen to the song again" is the only tip you're getting for now.

 

[Postulate]

Riderz isn't Ridaz. Are you even American?

Been over this - some Americans do pronounce it that way, and even if they don't, sometimes it's pronounced that way when you sing because 'er' is more closed and awkward. Hmm, let me see if I can think of an example of Russell Allen himself doing that before PL...



The way he says 'lair' in the first verse - 'lai-ah'

And just to show that this is something that occurs regularly based on sounds even in different contexts, you can also hear him omitting the r from 'darkest' right at the beginning so he pronounces it 'dahkest.' But later on, you can hear the r in 'gather'...why? Because it's not emphasized, he doesn't need to have it quite as open (and even there, I should note, it's still pretty reduced, just not gone altogether).

ANYWAY, the point is I doubt he's trying to sound dumb.