The thread where you talk about non-metal music you like.

[CiG]

I heard about that. Really sad hey, the man was a legend.

 

[Satanstoenail]

Another day, another death.

R.I.P. George Martin.

 

[SentinelSlain]

Elton John, Rod Stewart and Fleetwood Mac atm

 

[Oblivious Maximus]

Just a few select tracks but everything they recorded was re-issued on one stellar package earlier in the year.

 

[Serjeant Grumbles]

Another day, another death.

R.I.P. George Martin.

At least it wasn't George R.R. Martin.

 

[Satanstoenail]

At least it wasn't George R.R. Martin.

Apparently shitloads of people thought it was him.

 

[Satanstoenail]

 

[Satanstoenail]

Pretty much a daily thing now that some rocker from the 70s dies. Today it's Keith Emerson of Emerson Lake & Palmer.

 

[Baroque]

RIP E

 

[Trodden]

 

[Matt]

ELP had some amazing songs. Not quite as consistent as Yes and some of the other prog staples but they had genius level work. Emerson was a virtuoso for sure.

 

[Burkhard]

 

[Satanstoenail]

 

[NeonMetalDude]

They're far from my favorite band, but I like them. Till manages some impressive low register vocals and the keyboards are cool. Lyrically, they're pretty decent, but definitely not what I would describe as "unreal". Unreal in terms of lyrics would be Bob Dylan, or Patti Smith. Visually, I agree, they're astounding. One of the best theatrical shows I've ever witnessed. In terms of a "full experience", if the performer has enough real energy to them, they have good songs, and they play really well, that's usually enough for me. But I do agree, good theatricality does add a little something that some music just doesn't have.

Personally, I appreciate Dylan for his work, but Till is a totally different kind of animal. Dylan is great at telling a known story in the words of a modern-day poet. What Till does is tell a story I personally wouldn't expect to be told and do it combining modern language and the words that poets from past centuries would use, which is incredibly hard to do without sounding cheesy or forced. Also, the lyrics can be hard and haunting, but not because he uses brutal words, it's the way he tells the story. To tell that much with so little words is a trait of a real poet to me. Just like "Klavier", which starts with "They tell me, open the door. Curiosity turns to scream, what might be behind it? Behind this door stands a piano. The keys are dusty, the strings are out of tune. Behind this door stands a piano. But she doesn't play anymore, or it's been so long...". Later he sings about how he thought she only played the piano for him, but he was mistaken and: "...I poured her blood into the fire of my rage. I locked the door, they asked for her." And the song ends with "Opened is the door, oh how they scream. I hear the mother beg, the father lands hits on me. They free her from the piano, and no one believes me here. That I am sick to death, from sorrow and from [foul] smell". IDK, but to show the listener that a murder by a mentally sick person is in fact a double tragedy and word it that well (even though the great choice of words gets lost in translation), I think that's brilliant. As well as the fact that Till manages to walk a fine line. He uses language and imagery that is mainstream acceptable, yet pisses conservative people off. Like a song about hurting "somebody", where he sings "The body totally disfigured. Doesn't matter, allowed is what is enjoyed... I hurt you. I'm not sorry. It does you well (note: can be "You like it"). Hear how it screams." and continues to describe torture methods (like "razor-wire in urethra", etc.) and eventually he sings "You are the ship, I am the captain. Where can the voyage go? I see in the mirror your face. You love me because I don't love you." So it eventually turns out he's singing about hurting his own body for his own pleasure, but by the time he sings that part he's already pissed of people, leading them to think he's talking about torturing somebody or even rape, using beautifully selected words and imagery. All on mainstream radio/TV. That's just fucking brilliant.

 

[NeonMetalDude]

Dylan actually uses quite a few classical poetic devices in his work, especially with his meter in some songs. And Dylan's stories range from the conventional to the bizarre or morbid. Girl From North Country being one of the former, The Ballad of Hollis Brown being one of the latter. But part of Dylan's strength is in fact the gritty realness of his tales. Songs like Subterranean Homesick Blues are lyrical masterpieces because they describe vivid realities with a down-to-earth, human relatability in an astonishingly verbally clever manner. He can also play out such lucid and homely tales with marevlously colorful abstract poeticisms as shown in A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall. As for the lyrics you've given me from Till, they all seem like something an edgy teenager would desperately write to piss off or disturb an easily offended classmate. They're not all bad, but you said it's hard to do without sounding cheesy or forced? Honestly, the quotes you gave me? That's exactly what they seem to exude. You could've chosen a much better example of their good lyrics anyways, with, say, Amerika. Plus, offending conservative people? I'm conservative myself, but I truthfully am not irked by his lyrical content in the slightest. Dylan's lyrics propelled a generation, propelled a nationwide movement and conscience, spun wondrous and quintessentially human tales of both epic and smallsville magnitude, blew the prudish flag bearers of yore out of the water, and did all of it with a unique and fascinating eloquence. To me, Till isn't 1/32nd the lyricist Dylan is. I have yet to see a single piece of lyricism from Rammstein that even begins to compare to a Dylan song's lyrics.

I think this comes down to what you're looking for in lyrics. I don't care about how popular Dylan is, you could call Beiber the voice of a generation based on his popularity in the past with a certain age group and I guess we can both agree that his music is well-produced shit, so popularity isn't a factor to me. Not to say that I think Dylan is on the same level as Bieber. I respect Dylan, but to me, his lyrics have no punch. Tom Waits does "folky" music with what I would call "punch". With Dylan, I just feel no spark. To me, it's the same, old, whiny folk song-writer cliche themes. The world is bad, beggars, drugs, sadness, yadda, yadda (I know very well that's not the only theme, but that's the way I feel about it). I understand that to many people that's exactly the themes they want to hear, it's easy to digest and takes no effort to relate and feel intellectual about it, but to me, I've been growing up listening to whiny song-writer music that my mom used to listen to, it just seems empty and cliches by now, there's nothing surprising or interesting to me in it, just the same old, sulky stories beaten to death. Amerika is nice, but it's supposed to be stereo-typically "American" if you will - simple, straight, easy to digest. It's part of the critique and mockery of that song. Not really a piece where Lindemann shines imo. A better song would be "Man against Man (Mann gegen Mann)" if you want to get more poetical, but even there, the translations don't do it justice, because the clever world-play gets lost in translation (like where the lyrics go "I am the servant of 2 masters" - the word for master and mister are the same in this case, "link in chain" - "link" can be both a chain link and a man's phallus, etc.). But yeah, I guess his lyrics are "edgy teenager" stuff, surely that's why his book "Messer" is rated 4.48/5 @ goodreads based on reviews, cause it's edgy teenager poetry .

 

[CiG]

You're crazy and evidently stuck on his earliest material. He certainly developed as a lyricist and that's precisely why I prefer his late 1960's/early 1970's output the very most.

 

[NeonMetalDude]

I don't care to be honest. That kind of lyrics, while I admit it has quality, does nothing for me. I feel exactly the same as when I listen to metal where the lyrics are openly about murder, rape, etc. It's just boring themes, beaten to death. "Girl From North Country" - what am I even supposed to do with that. Just the same whining beaten to death. The Ballad of Hollis Brown is one of those which I have respect for Dylan, but seriously, "your brain is bleeding and your legs can't seem to stand" - eh?! That's supposed to be written in "astonishingly verbally clever manner"? Seriously, just the same old Dylan-worship. He can write a song like "Wiggle wiggle" and some people will still claim it's the pinnacle of song-writing. Guy's great, but not the God-like lyricist people would want to see him as. Or at least not for me. Bukowski alone has been more relatable for me than anything Dylan ever wrote, even though I'm comparing song-lyrics and poetry now, which isn't exactly fair, but to some people, that's what they see Dylan's lyrics as.

To me, art has to be provoking in some way, Dylan to me in most cases isn't. He's very easy to relate to by the common working man and his lyrics are flowery and easy to understand. Again, not saying he's shit, he's "quality" - I just don't feel excited listening to him.

 

[CiG]

I don't care to be honest.

You sure type a lot for someone not caring.

I can only speak for myself but it's not that Bob Dylan is a master lyricist, quite the contrary I think he's rather workaday in that department, but it's the conviction, honesty and emotion with which he delivers his lyrics that make him more than just another folk singer. He's the rough yet windswept everyman.

 

[Omni]

Bob Dylan is probably the most directly influential songwriter of the second half of the 1900s, so Justin Bieber will never be comparable to him.

 

[NeonMetalDude]

You're crazy

I don't care to be honest.

Should have made it clearer I don't care what your opinion is on my sanity.

You like Dylan, and since I it's not like I dislike him, I don't mind. I'm speaking my mind on him since the guy before compared Lindemann and him. It's 2 totally different writers, with 2 different approaches, one works for me personally the other doesn't. And I don't buy into that God-like status of Dylan. He's good though.