UM Hall of Fame April '16 Edition

[Baroque]

Except I'd say Motörhead created thrash.

They were close in some songs but I disagree, they weren't consistent about it. They never released what i'd call a thrash album.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Perhaps. But they did so many things that were utterly fundamental, i.e. Phil Taylor's drumming, Lemmy's vocals, the high distortion of the bass, the sheer velocity, the attitude, etc. The only fundamental they didn't cover was the chugging guitars.

 

[Baroque]

Perhaps. But they did so many things that were utterly fundamental, i.e. Phil Taylor's drumming, Lemmy's vocals, the high distortion of the bass, the sheer velocity, the attitude, etc. The only fundamental they didn't cover was the chugging guitars.

They were definitely a huge influence on Metallica and others

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Well, not only did they basically give all the early thrash bands a reason to play and exist, they were the quite possibly the first NWOBHM band, and the NWOBHM was of course key in creating thrash, and they were worshipped by most of the late 70's to mid 80's hardcore punk outfits, which had another key role in inspiring thrash. So, top that off with their musical contributions, I'd say it was them.

 

[Omni]

Except I'd say Motörhead created thrash.

That's definitely not correct. I won't dispute them being one of the influences on early thrash metal, but they definitely were not thrash metal and they aren't the only band that was important to the development of the genre.

Not all of your special favorite bands are singularly responsible for creating genres of metal.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

I would contend that they were. Overkill's title track has nigh all the core elements of a thrash metal song and delivers them impeccably. And not once did I contend that they were the sole band important to the genre's development. I merely proferred that they were the first band to actually hit the mark and play the style. "Not all of your special favorite bands are singularly responsible for creating genres of metal." For one, you presuppose that every band I'm saying invented a subgenre of metal is a favorite of mine and that my favoritism is what guides my ascribing of such titles. Not true. For instance, I enjoy Death greatly, but never would I list them as even close to a personal favorite. Same for Possessed. I only give deference where I see there is deference to be given, not based on some petulant, pedantic, and infantine confirmation bias. If you see my assertions as wrong, I welcome, respect, and admire your challenging of them as you have before and continue to do.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Motörhead is one of my all-time favorite bands, but irrespective of whether they were or weren't, I would still be making the argument I am.

 

[Baroque]

Overkill is my favorite Motorhead album and I love Motorhead. But it's not 100% thrash. The guitars aren't thrash. It's speed metal or proto thrash metal but I can't call them the first thrash metal band unless they were playing 100% thrash. Just the way I'm defining things pertaining to genre origins, feel free to say 75% thrash is still thrash.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

The guitars are the only thing that isn't thrash about that song and album. I think that coupled with their influence is sufficient. But be as stringent as you wish with your definitions, it's a respectable thing to have such tight strictures.

 

[Omni]

Weird that Metallica's debut album, as an example of early thrash, has quite a lot of dissimilar elements to Motörhead. There are also obvious differences in the debut albums of Slayer, Megadeth, Exodus, Anthrax and Overkill as examples of other early thrash metal. It's quite obvious that Motörhead is far from the singular catalyst to start thrash metal.

Some other bands that are clearly not solely inspired by Motörhead but definitely influenced early thrash bands according to the bands themselves are Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Queen, Blitzkrieg and Tygers of Pan Tang, just to name a few. Elements of all of those bands can be found in actual thrash metal bands.

You're not living in reality if you think that Motörhead was thrash metal or was singularly responsible for invented the genre as you have claimed.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

There are dissimilar elements, but there's also a full host similarities, from the technicalities of the drumming to the vocals. Listen to Hetfield's singing, then recall the fact that Metallica got its start as a Diamond Head and Motörhead cover band, you can't listen to fifteen seconds of his vocal runs from Kill 'Em All and tell me he wasn't borderline kissing Lemmy's cowboy boots. And that's just one example. I said it once before, and I'll say it again, I am more than apprised of Motörhead not being the sole influence on thrash. Diamond Head, the bands you listed in your second paragraph, plus some others like Minor Threat all had roles too. But they were the first band to congeal everything into thrash metal when they dropped Overkill in '79, and then Ace of Spades in '80.

 

[Omni]

A lot of people, myself included, note an extreme similarity between the vocals of Brian Ross on the first Blitzkrieg demo and Jess Cox of Tygers of Pan Tang to James Hetfield's vocals on Kill 'em All. The band also chose to cover "Blitzkrieg" as a B-side on one of the singles from the album.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Which is why Blitzkrieg can be counted as another influence, Brian Ross, he without dubiousness had an exceedingly prominent play. They're one of the NWOBHM's finest. Lemmy's vocal influence can't begin to be understated either though. Metallica's choice to be a full on Diamond Head and Motörhead cover band before anything else speaks volumes.

 

[Omni]

Metallica isn't a band that I've studied extensively by any means, but I've never heard that they started as a Diamond Head and Motörhead cover band. Do you have a source for that information?

 

[no country for old wainds]

surprised holocaust haven't been mentioned, as i think they may be the most thrashy of all the early NWOBHM bands, and metallica worshipped them too.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

http://www.encycmet.com/cover/
Joel McIver has also expounded on it. He has a book called Justice For All: The Truth About Metallica.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Holy cow. I think it's multi-page online forum debates over the minute and fine points of "Which band did what?" like this, (where each side forms cogent and lengthy points, despite it being the Internet) that proves metalheads are freakazoids.

 

[Omni]

I didn't see anything on that page about them specifically being a Motörhead and Diamond Head cover band. I would also argue that since they recorded multiple Diamond Head songs on their demos, they most likely favored them over Motörhead.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

I should've checked that website more, you're right, they don't really say it. As I said though, Joel McIver has claimed and expounded upon the point before, and the guy's an excellent music historian and journalist. It's stuff like this that shows me the impact Motörhead had on them besides the blatant musical facets. It makes me dubious that they "favored" Diamond Head as well. I'd say both bands had roughly equitable impact on Metallica in general.

 

[Omni]

Okay, so you have absolutely no reputable source for your claim. Cool. I figured as much.

I find it entirely questionable that a band's early demos are largely covers but there are no covers on them by the band that must have inspired them above all else according to your argument.