UM Hall of Fame April '16 Edition

[CiG]

Alice Cooper might be metal in some way later on, but his best material (aka Alice Cooper Group) isn't metal to my ears. Thin Lizzy are way more metal sounding than ACDC and Alice Cooper Group combined.

Thunder and Lightning I guess, but beyond that I can't recall much.

"Emerald" is pretty much the start of epic heavy metal, along with early Kansas.

 

[Omni]

Thunder and Lightning I guess, but beyond that I can't recall much.

The fact that you could easily name an album without any assistance means that you knew you were wrong when you said that they never made any metal recordings.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

The fact that you could easily name an album without any assistance means that you knew you were wrong when you said that they never made any metal recordings.

To be candid, I didn't take Thunder and Lightning into consideration when I made that comment. I admit I was wrong, I wasn't aware I was, but I was. It's their only metal record though. I thought about it when you shot your reply over to me, and you're right.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Alice Cooper might be metal in some way later on, but his best material (aka Alice Cooper Group) isn't metal to my ears. Thin Lizzy are way more metal sounding than ACDC and Alice Cooper Group combined.



"Emerald" is pretty much the start of epic heavy metal, along with early Kansas.

The ACG is metal, but just barely. It's mostly proto-metal, but I think there're places where it lapses over. Thin Lizzy are more prog, blues rock, and hard rock than anything from what I hear in their 70's output. Thunder and Lightning is when they actually made that crossover if you ask me.

 

[CiG]

I think Thin Lizzy have heavy metal songs peppered through their albums in general, but I honestly can't really think of many Alice Cooper Group songs that I feel is heavy metal. Give some examples?

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Killer's title track gets pretty damn metallic, Lay Down And Die, Goodbye has its moments.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Graveland
Agalloch
Deathspell Omega
Emperor
Enslaved
Dio
Fates Warning
Dissection
Incantation
Demilich
My Dying Bride

 

[Baroque]

I'll give this a few more days. Would anyone else like to vote?

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

It's gonna be horseshit if the big ones like Ozzy, Death, Megadeth, and Venom don't get in.

 

[Omni]

It's gonna be horseshit if the big ones like Ozzy, Death, Megadeth, and Venom don't get in.

Venom is the most urgent band that you mentioned if you ask me. The rest are more popular than they are good from my perspective.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

I'd say Ozzy is more urgent than Venom, but other than that, yeah. Venom invented black metal and released multiple stone cold classic records. Same goes for Death with inventing death metal, etc. Megadeth is extremely important to thrash and Ozzy released plenty of great records himself, brought several now legendary guitarists to the world stage, and helped spearhead 80's trad metal.

 

[Phylactery]

Same goes for Death with inventing death metal

I find this to be quite overstated to be honest. I'm not going to say that Death weren't a huge influence on the genre, because obviously they were. But there were bands like Death Strike, Possessed, Necrophagia, Morbid Angel etc that were all forming/releasing material around the time Death were.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Those bands were around yes, but Morbid Angel didn't drop their first album till '89, Necrophagia took till '87, and Death Strike didn't quite get the impact necessary at the time due to the record companies being pricks. Possessed is the only one you could say beat Death to the punch, them having released Seven Churches in '85. Whereas Scream Bloody Gore didn't come out till '86. So, it's a close one of either Death or Possessed.

 

[Baroque]

Possessed is the only one you could say beat Death to the punch, them having released Seven Churches in '85. Whereas Scream Bloody Gore didn't come out till '86. So, it's a close one of either Death or Possessed.

Yeah, both bands formed in '83 and had demos in '84 too. I don't know which demo came earliest in '84.

I think both bands will be added to the Hall of Fame eventually. Though it could be argued Death had a greater influence on metal perhaps.

 

[no country for old wainds]

i'm more dubious about venom 'inventing black metal', myself, but god i don't really want to argue about that for a 100th time. i'll go halfway and say they were obviously crucial in inspiring it.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Yeah, both bands formed in '83 and had demos in '84 too. I don't know which demo came earliest in '84.

I think both bands will be added to the Hall of Fame eventually. Though it could be argued Death had a greater influence on metal perhaps.

Exactly. After all the digging I've done, to this day, I can't seem to figure out whether Death By Metal or Death Metal was the first demo in '84. I'd say Death had an overall greater influence on metal. Given Chuck continued to innovate and push boundaries like crazy and take the music and technicality to new, insane altitudes afterwards and didn't stop doing so until his untimely passing.

 

[Omni]

Death definitely didn't invent death metal. They were obviously one of its progenitors, but they're not singularly responsible for its creation. That's a constant misconception that people spread around.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

I suppose that's true enough granted Possessed's existence, but I really can't seem to find any other bands that struck the way they did as early as they did.

 

[Baroque]

I guess no one band is singularly responsible for anything, Black Sabbath wouldn't exist without rock n roll before it, etc. However that's a trivial way of looking at things. In the nontrivial sense Death is absolutely responsible for death metal. To say they're not is like saying Metallica is not responsible for thrash metal. You can just list all of their influences sure, but then I can list the influences of the influences and it becomes a pointless debate.

If you do want to go that route Punk in the early 80's was more extreme than most metal and is probably responsible for the development of extreme metal like death and black. Check out Napalm Death's demos from '82 and such. This is closer to death metal than some of what death was playing in '84



But no one is saying Napalm Death created death metal. It's the band that actually released the first pure death metal album: Death. Possessed is arguably death/thrash with some other elements.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Except I'd say Motörhead created thrash.