UM Hall of Fame April '16 Edition

[Omni]

Except I'd say Motörhead created thrash.

That's definitely not correct. I won't dispute them being one of the influences on early thrash metal, but they definitely were not thrash metal and they aren't the only band that was important to the development of the genre.

Not all of your special favorite bands are singularly responsible for creating genres of metal.

 

[Baroque]

Overkill is my favorite Motorhead album and I love Motorhead. But it's not 100% thrash. The guitars aren't thrash. It's speed metal or proto thrash metal but I can't call them the first thrash metal band unless they were playing 100% thrash. Just the way I'm defining things pertaining to genre origins, feel free to say 75% thrash is still thrash.

 

[Omni]

Weird that Metallica's debut album, as an example of early thrash, has quite a lot of dissimilar elements to Motörhead. There are also obvious differences in the debut albums of Slayer, Megadeth, Exodus, Anthrax and Overkill as examples of other early thrash metal. It's quite obvious that Motörhead is far from the singular catalyst to start thrash metal.

Some other bands that are clearly not solely inspired by Motörhead but definitely influenced early thrash bands according to the bands themselves are Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Queen, Blitzkrieg and Tygers of Pan Tang, just to name a few. Elements of all of those bands can be found in actual thrash metal bands.

You're not living in reality if you think that Motörhead was thrash metal or was singularly responsible for invented the genre as you have claimed.

 

[Omni]

A lot of people, myself included, note an extreme similarity between the vocals of Brian Ross on the first Blitzkrieg demo and Jess Cox of Tygers of Pan Tang to James Hetfield's vocals on Kill 'em All. The band also chose to cover "Blitzkrieg" as a B-side on one of the singles from the album.

 

[Omni]

Metallica isn't a band that I've studied extensively by any means, but I've never heard that they started as a Diamond Head and Motörhead cover band. Do you have a source for that information?

 

[no country for old wainds]

surprised holocaust haven't been mentioned, as i think they may be the most thrashy of all the early NWOBHM bands, and metallica worshipped them too.

 

[Omni]

I didn't see anything on that page about them specifically being a Motörhead and Diamond Head cover band. I would also argue that since they recorded multiple Diamond Head songs on their demos, they most likely favored them over Motörhead.

 

[Omni]

Okay, so you have absolutely no reputable source for your claim. Cool. I figured as much.

I find it entirely questionable that a band's early demos are largely covers but there are no covers on them by the band that must have inspired them above all else according to your argument.

 

[Omni]

How come the only source for this info that would be common knowledge if it was true is a book by an outside source?

Early Metallica definitely sounds more like other bands mentioned during this discussion than they sound like Motörhead.

If Motörhead invented thrash metal as you keep claiming (clearly erroneously), bands that directly followed them that played thrash metal would have been mostly influenced by them beyond any other bands.

 

[CiG]

Motorhead helped to start speed metal, not thrash metal. There's pretty much nothing in Motorhead's sound that is similar to thrash metal when it comes to fundamental elements (rather than vague concepts).

I find this to be quite overstated to be honest. I'm not going to say that Death weren't a huge influence on the genre, because obviously they were. But there were bands like Death Strike, Possessed, Necrophagia, Morbid Angel etc that were all forming/releasing material around the time Death were.

Possessed are barely death metal, especially when compared to Death. Pretty much just thrash metal with an aura.
Necrophagia definitely deserve a ton of credit though, but personally I'd say death metal truly starts with Scream Bloody Gore.

 

[Baroque]

I've always thought "No Life 'Til Leather" (the song) sounded like a Motorhead song, but that's about it. Nothing from Kill 'Em All

 

[CiG]

Yes. Because you could take those elements and ascribe Motorhead to inventing all kinds of shit on that basis alone.

 

[Omni]

According to Slayer's original manager, he showed them Venom and it greatly altered their musical perception and aesthetics. He also says that they wrote "Die by the Sword" after seeing Metallica live and wanting to do a song in their style. I need to find that interview again. It's actually really interesting.

 

[Omni]

Tom Araya also peed on Cronos one time when they were both drunk on a tour together, but that is more widely known.

 

[CiG]

That's pretty cool, I always felt like Hell Awaits had a heavy Venom influence myself.

Possibly. But Phil's technique is most applicable to thrash and speed. Specifically the way he played them (his drums). It's on plenty of songs from both Overkill and Ace of Spades to varying degrees and it's blatantly similar to so many thrash and speed bands' drumming it's nuts. Ian Paice on Fireball is almost the only thing like it from the era. And even then Phil took it even further. Lemmy's bass tone is specific in roughly the same way, he and Cliff Burton ruled that type of tone.

Cliff Burton is hardly the archetypal thrash metal bassist.

 

[CiG]

It was essentially the same in U.K. hardcore. This is my point, you're using vague concepts as proof that Motorhead started thrash metal, well show me where Motorhead ever used chugging styled riffs.

 

[CiG]

That's one of the quintessential elements of thrash metal in my view.

 

[CiG]

I'd say you're definitely reaching there.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

It's gonna be horseshit if the big ones like Ozzy, Death, Megadeth, and Venom don't get in.

Venom aren't deserving at all.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

i'm more dubious about venom 'inventing black metal', myself, but god i don't really want to argue about that for a 100th time. i'll go halfway and say they were obviously crucial in inspiring it.

Claiming Venom invented black metal the genre is so illegitimate that it isn't worth responding to. They came up with the phrase, but not the genre.