UM Hall of Fame April '16 Edition

[H.P. Lovecraft]

"... absolutely no reputable source for your claim..." I listed one. Joel McIver, a music historian/journalist and his book. This is the third time I've cited him to you. "that must have inspired them above all else according to your argument" Did you not read my previous post? I just said Diamond Head and Motörhead probably had something of an equitable influence on the band. When a band says that Lemmy is "one of the primary reasons" for their entire existence, it's hard to call them anything short of a major influence, specifically when your pair statements like that with such pronounced sonic parallels.

 

[Omni]

How come the only source for this info that would be common knowledge if it was true is a book by an outside source?

Early Metallica definitely sounds more like other bands mentioned during this discussion than they sound like Motörhead.

If Motörhead invented thrash metal as you keep claiming (clearly erroneously), bands that directly followed them that played thrash metal would have been mostly influenced by them beyond any other bands.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

I'm unsure as to why that is. It may be false, but McIver has written well-enough on just about everything else he's covered that I haven't a clue why'd he fabricate that single little factoid from out of the blue. Considering Lars' drum sound and James' vocals, are both intensely Motörhead influenced, I'm confident there's more than enough sonic parallels by those factors alone to demonstrate Motörhead's sonic influence on the group (and to bring it to a comparable level to their other influences). Your third paragraph is not necessarily so either. W.C. Handy created blues as we know it, yet the blues musicians following him took on plenty of sounds not too comparable to his own.

 

[CiG]

Motorhead helped to start speed metal, not thrash metal. There's pretty much nothing in Motorhead's sound that is similar to thrash metal when it comes to fundamental elements (rather than vague concepts).

I find this to be quite overstated to be honest. I'm not going to say that Death weren't a huge influence on the genre, because obviously they were. But there were bands like Death Strike, Possessed, Necrophagia, Morbid Angel etc that were all forming/releasing material around the time Death were.

Possessed are barely death metal, especially when compared to Death. Pretty much just thrash metal with an aura.
Necrophagia definitely deserve a ton of credit though, but personally I'd say death metal truly starts with Scream Bloody Gore.

 

[Baroque]

I've always thought "No Life 'Til Leather" (the song) sounded like a Motorhead song, but that's about it. Nothing from Kill 'Em All

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Vague concepts? Like Phil Taylor's double bass drumming and Lemmy's bass tone?

 

[CiG]

Yes. Because you could take those elements and ascribe Motorhead to inventing all kinds of shit on that basis alone.

 

[Omni]

According to Slayer's original manager, he showed them Venom and it greatly altered their musical perception and aesthetics. He also says that they wrote "Die by the Sword" after seeing Metallica live and wanting to do a song in their style. I need to find that interview again. It's actually really interesting.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Yes. Because you could take those elements and ascribe Motorhead to inventing all kinds of shit on that basis alone.

Possibly. But Phil's technique is most applicable to thrash and speed. Specifically the way he played them (his drums). It's on plenty of songs from both Overkill and Ace of Spades to varying degrees and it's blatantly similar to so many thrash and speed bands' drumming it's nuts. Ian Paice on Fireball is almost the only thing like it from the era. And even then Phil took it even further. Lemmy's bass tone is specific in roughly the same way, he and Cliff Burton ruled that type of tone.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

According to Slayer's original manager, he showed them Venom and it greatly altered their musical perception and aesthetics. He also says that they wrote "Die by the Sword" after seeing Metallica live and wanting to do a song in their style. I need to find that interview again. It's actually really interesting.

That sounds amazing. Venom were definitely another big one being the godfathers of black metal and the one other band I might say beat Motörhead to the punch.

 

[Omni]

Tom Araya also peed on Cronos one time when they were both drunk on a tour together, but that is more widely known.

 

[CiG]

That's pretty cool, I always felt like Hell Awaits had a heavy Venom influence myself.

Possibly. But Phil's technique is most applicable to thrash and speed. Specifically the way he played them (his drums). It's on plenty of songs from both Overkill and Ace of Spades to varying degrees and it's blatantly similar to so many thrash and speed bands' drumming it's nuts. Ian Paice on Fireball is almost the only thing like it from the era. And even then Phil took it even further. Lemmy's bass tone is specific in roughly the same way, he and Cliff Burton ruled that type of tone.

Cliff Burton is hardly the archetypal thrash metal bassist.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Yep, heard that one. Almost as bad as the time Ozzy licked Mötley Crüe's piss off the floor.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

That's pretty cool, I always felt like Hell Awaits had a heavy Venom influence myself.



Cliff Burton is hardly the archetypal thrash metal bassist.

Never claimed he was. But that tone overall was pervasive throughout thrash in its style of distortion.

 

[CiG]

It was essentially the same in U.K. hardcore. This is my point, you're using vague concepts as proof that Motorhead started thrash metal, well show me where Motorhead ever used chugging styled riffs.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

As I've said before, that's one of the only things Motörhead never did. At least not before the 90's and 2000's, but that's too far along to be relevant to our discussion. The closest I can recall is a barely audible segment of palm muting after the verse in Poison. I'll go do some looking, but I don't think I'll find much.

 

[CiG]

That's one of the quintessential elements of thrash metal in my view.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Wait. I think I've got something, if my ears don't deceive me, there may a couple palm muted measures of the main riff in Ace of Spades' title track.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Right before the "playing for the high one..." line.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Yeah, it's there. Albeit, I'm not sure I know how much I'd call it a thrash chug. Then again, joined with the volume, distortion, and velocity, it could be.