why do black metallers hate modern Black metal?

Ars Diavoli said:
Themes aren't the same.
Dimmu Borgir typically writes about armageddon, anti-christian/'satanism'
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none yet, but i'm sure that earlier or later they'll use others themes that CoF is using now

and lyrics more common of black metal etc where Cradle has always embraced more gothic themes such as vampires, romance, fairytales, Elizabeth Bathory, poetry and such.
Why does naked women in album artwork indicate a copy, it is very very common among males is it not?
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ok. show me another band that use it... i just know Dimmu Borgir and Cradle of filth

The way in which the women are portrayed is also very different, Cradle does it in a way that's more dramatic and would compliment beauty as opposed to just senseless nudity.

Musically they are different as well. Dimmu Borgir comes from a black metal background and guitar work is very different to Cradle's Iron Maiden influenced guitar harmonies albeit neither band is guitar-driven. Cradle's 'atmosphere' is also different, it works to produce a more gothic mood which I've never really found in Dimmu's music at all. Even though Barker was in both bands, the drum style is different from both bands with Dimmu being centered towards more skilled drummers in Barker, Hellhammer, Killerich, Laureano where Cradle isn't particularily concered about that.

You're simply drawing similarites from very general things. I feel that these comparisons are really only derived from both bands highly successful and appealing to a certain audience. Dimmu Borgir is not even a gothic band, even if they appeal to a so-called goth crowd.
The comparisons are bogus unless you are relatively new to either band, but if you've been into both bands for years like I have you'll be able to see the frequent 'similarities' aren't as valid as people would like to think they are.
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i'm not ''new'' to these bands, and the minimalists themes are differents, but the general context are the same... the difference is both bands use different ways to get some attention

The reason why someone would enjoy CoF and DB while not being able to stand black metal is not because they have some symphonic or melodic components but because they are more accessible than black metal bands.
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you should say: The reason why someone would enjoy CoF and DB is because they have some symphonic or melodic components more accessible than black metal bands.

They are also at the forefront of extreme metal as opposed to more obscure and underground acts, along with bands like Opeth, Children of Bodom, Arch Enemy - those bands are accessible and therefore more popular to a general audience. Black metal's raw underproduced production qualities, and harsher vocals is enough to turn away the casual metal fan.
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:rolleyes:
 
Cythraul said:
bullshit
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Why is that bullshit?

I agree that metal has more passionate fans than any other genre does but even at that, there are tons of casual metal fans. You know, the people who only listen to Opeth, Children of Bodom, Slayer, Amon Amarth etc because that's all they are aware of... There's tons of people who are barely even into metal that listen to those bands, a large majority of Cradle of Filth fans are barely even aware of any metal outside of those bands previously mentioned. Where I live I actually find it very difficult to meet anyone who is as dedicated to metal as I am. Maybe its different from area to area but I only know a few people who are heavily into metal as opposed to those who casually enjoy it. Those popular bands have larger fan bases as they are more populated by casual fans, or 'listeners' if you want to call them that then.
 
Ars Diavoli said:
Why is that bullshit?

I agree that metal has more passionate fans than any other genre does but even at that, there are tons of casual metal fans. You know, the people who only listen to Opeth, Children of Bodom, Slayer, Amon Amarth etc because that's all they are aware of... There's tons of people who are barely even into metal that listen to those bands, a large majority of Cradle of Filth fans are barely even aware of any metal outside of those bands previously mentioned. Where I live I actually find it very difficult to meet anyone who is as dedicated to metal as I am.
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I probably didn't really know what you meant by "casual metal fan". I thought you were talking about people who listen to a metal album every now and then but are really into some other type of music. You're just talking about people who are into stuff that's more well-known. Whether or not they are casual about that is an entirely different issue.
 
Ars Diavoli said:
I agree that metal has more passionate fans than any other genre
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I don't know, man - some of those hip hop guys are pretty psycho about their music. Just look at that whole "east coast - west coast" rivalry. :erk:

Seriously, though. Any genre of music can have passionate fans. It's just that less popular forms of music tend to force people to dig deeper for them, and so their fanbase ends up more dedicated as a result.
 
vihris-gari said:
I don't know, man - some of those hip hop guys are pretty psycho about their music. Just look at that whole "east coast - west coast" rivalry. :erk:

Seriously, though. Any genre of music can have passionate fans. It's just that less popular forms of music tend to force people to dig deeper for them, and so their fanbase ends up more dedicated as a result.
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I bet there are fans who do anything Ozzy asked them to.... legal or no.
 
vihris-gari said:
Huh? I don't give a shit who I'm mocking. I just happen to agree with Ars a bit more on that one.
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Why?

edit: Maybe you don't realize this but the little joke you made in your last reply to me applies just as readily to whatever his name is' post as it does to my "bullshit" comment. Stop being a fucking faggot.
 
Cythraul said:
Why?

edit: Maybe you don't realize this but the little joke you made in your last reply to me applies just as readily to whatever his name is' post as it does to my "bullshit" comment. Stop being a fucking faggot.
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Sweet zombie mohammed. Calm down.

It's a friendly jeer. He didn't beat up your mom...
 
Just to clarify, I meant casual fan as in someone would say they listen to metal but really don't care to truly explore and dissect the genre, and aren't very passionate about the music they listen to. For example, I actually explore the scene and look for bands as opposed to those who maybe just watch MTV or Muchloud and every once in a while see a video that they like. People who listen to mainstream music for example aren't usually passionate about the music they listen to as they are more or less concerned with individual songs rather than full albums or the actual artist - that of course is generalization which I find is often true in comparison to fans of metal. I wouldn't exactly say a 'casual metal fan' is a poser but just one who is on the naive side of things, and is probably fine with that.

And I can agree that rap/hiphop fans are pretty passionate about the music they listen to seeing as how it is largely integrated into their 'culture' or lifestyle. I don't mean this to be offensive, but what would black people listen to if rap or hip hop didn't exist in any form.
 
Ars Diavoli said:
Just to clarify, I meant casual fan as in someone would say they listen to metal but really don't care to truly explore and dissect the genre, and aren't very passionate about the music they listen to. For example, I actually explore the scene and look for bands as opposed to those who maybe just watch MTV or Muchloud and every once in a while see a video that they like. People who listen to mainstream music for example aren't usually passionate about the music they listen to as they are more or less concerned with individual songs rather than full albums or the actual artist - that of course is generalization which I find is often true in comparison to fans of metal.

And I can agree that rap/hiphop fans are pretty passionate about the music they listen to seeing as how it is largely integrated into their 'culture' or lifestyle.
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Then thier not considered fans. All or nothing. Your a soldier or a traitor.
 
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