CHIMAIRA
- Thread starter Brett - K A L I S I A
- Start date
When drums sounds as good as they do these days, I don't care how the tones are derived, just as long as they sound that good.
My view is probably a lot different than a producer/AE that is in the biz, as samples allow amateurs like me to get closer to a fully realized professional type tone, even though they sound no where near as good as a well produced album.
Also, there's a lot of other factors that play a role in how any tones sound in production today, so I'm puzzled why people choose samples as the whipping boy?
For me I like good production. If it takes sampling the kit to get it there, then that's what it takes.
My view is probably a lot different than a producer/AE that is in the biz, as samples allow amateurs like me to get closer to a fully realized professional type tone, even though they sound no where near as good as a well produced album.
Also, there's a lot of other factors that play a role in how any tones sound in production today, so I'm puzzled why people choose samples as the whipping boy?
For me I like good production. If it takes sampling the kit to get it there, then that's what it takes.
Andy Sneap
Metal Guru
462studio
462 Studio
Cool! Great job on the drums as well Andy. Looking forward to hearing the rest of the album. Cheers.
RemoWilliams
¯\(°_o)/¯ How meet Devil?
- Nov 13, 2005
- 879
- 1
- 16
Think I gotta say something about the "samples" thing as well. Their does seem to be a sort of double standard in that you can manipulate the after product of the guitars with EQ's, compression, limitiers, all that, but DON"T TOUCH THE DRUMS!!! Its crazy. They don't say the keyboardist is cheating, or is sterile when he's using midi to trigger a sound in his keyboard. I'm a guitarist, but I love drums. I love to hear the drums carry the song, make it flow, be the backbone, set the pace for the tune. To that as well, I know that to allow the drums to be heard over thick guitars, low bass, all those frequencies, you gotta help them a bit. I'm not saying I'm not a fan of the all natural drumset, I'm a big jazz/jazzfusion fan, and dig the stuff from the 40's to the 80's. But, for metal, maybe the sampled drumkit (moreso kick I'd say) has become the standard because in metal, I think that mean kick drum, either it be fast, or so, is what gives a song some of its "punch". I'm sure a lot of extreme metal in general would sound a bit "weak" if the kick, or drumkit didn't have some "advantages". I'm sure a producer could slave over trying to get the natural sound of the kit to tape or disk, and then eq'ing and compressing, and this or that (altering the sound), and work his best to place it in the context of the metal/extreme metal song. The technology is here to help the music, and allow the band to achive the power and impact they want. Maybe I'm talking more about metal/extreme metal, and most forms of metal with this. 
Eduardo Apolonia
Member
Andy, excellent work as usual on the Chimaira album. 
It's incredible how you're always raising the bar for the best production/sound!!
Could you elaborate more on the mics and pres that you used for the drums, at least overheads, ride and hi-hat
thanks
It's incredible how you're always raising the bar for the best production/sound!!
Could you elaborate more on the mics and pres that you used for the drums, at least overheads, ride and hi-hat
thanks
Radd
Self Portrait
K...
I got the impression that I was under attack but could'nt quite tell how badly and that I may have pissed Andy & James off...I don't want to do that.
Massili - I pretty much feel the same way.
Andy - What cabs did you use? Mesa? v30's?
theblackmoon
Casa Negra
kev
Im guybrush threepwood
Andy Sneap
Metal Guru
hey no ones getting pissed off here, always easy to read things wrong.
All the usual stuff on Chimaira, I think it was 184's on oh's and single 57 on the cab errr...yeah something like that. There was a neve board where we tracked drums and I actually can't remember what pre I used on gtr. Hows that for useless?
All the usual stuff on Chimaira, I think it was 184's on oh's and single 57 on the cab errr...yeah something like that. There was a neve board where we tracked drums and I actually can't remember what pre I used on gtr. Hows that for useless?
Matt Smith
THEOCRACY
I think it's the Beat Detective thing that people are really complaining about moreso than the actual use of samples, they just don't know it.
I personally really like that sound, but to each his own.
I personally really like that sound, but to each his own.
It's the same debate over the drawing process.
Since I do artwork too (go see Fabio's ) the arguments are the same in the art community. Like if you don't use real paintbrushes you're not a real painter etc...
Someone curse the use of computer since it's a machine and it's not natural, but it's an INSTRUMENT! The machine doesn't do anything you don't want to.
So if the end result on drums is very good sounding and precision (tht's required in this type of music) why not using the computer to polish and fine tune the performance?
Beats me.
I say to leave the debate to whom has the energy to spend on the debate. Everyone will continue to play and struggle for the best end result. using everything at his disposal.
Since I do artwork too (go see Fabio's ) the arguments are the same in the art community. Like if you don't use real paintbrushes you're not a real painter etc...
Someone curse the use of computer since it's a machine and it's not natural, but it's an INSTRUMENT! The machine doesn't do anything you don't want to.
So if the end result on drums is very good sounding and precision (tht's required in this type of music) why not using the computer to polish and fine tune the performance?
Beats me.
I say to leave the debate to whom has the energy to spend on the debate. Everyone will continue to play and struggle for the best end result. using everything at his disposal.
MKS
Member
- May 24, 2005
- 836
- 0
- 16
Honestly, as a drummer, I still think Igor has one of the worst recorded drum sounds in metal. Cardboard mixed with rice cakes and smothered in ox feces.
Eduardo Apolonia
Member
I remember seeing some footage of the drums recording (can't remember where, maybe on this forum) and what I remember to see was two KM184s on the back and one underneath the ride but wasn't sure the two overheads were KM184s, I thought that it was maybe KM84s? Which leaves me to ask do you like more 84s or 184s?
Was it also a KM184 on the Hihat? over or under?
That's a lot of 184s!!
Just one more question.
Do you feel that using the same mics for all cymbals/overheads gives a more "coherent" sound?Thanks
yo dudes
mark chim here
not trying to back peddle or anything but i will say i was misquoted a bit in that interview. it happens all the time to anyone and every one.
what i was trying to get across, which is exactly what i told andy, is that we wanted a "live" sound. most bands out there now have a real processed sound that is due mainly to over triggering. people will use samples but not set it right and you have this obvious fake sound. dimmu borgir for example. i love the band, but come on that shit sounds good but fake as hell....i used arch enemy as a ref that a lot of american bands try to get that swedish sound and fail.
we have used samples on all our records, and are responsible for the snare drum you have heard on most of colins records after he did impossibility...i just wanted to get away from using it as much as possible being this was andols first record back. i wanted it to sound as natural and big as possible so the listener wouldn't think the stuff he is playing sounds fake or something.
i tried to explain this to a journo, but that's like trying to teach suecof how to walk.
we are very happy with andy's mix. i will say that we all feel it's our best sounding record to date.
true story i even got a little choked up when i heard the test mix... i didn't know what to expect when i got it and i was blown away.
usually when you get a test mix it takes a while to get it right, andy nailed it on the first try.
although, he should have kept me and suecof's vocals at the end of black heart in.
mark chim here
not trying to back peddle or anything but i will say i was misquoted a bit in that interview. it happens all the time to anyone and every one.
what i was trying to get across, which is exactly what i told andy, is that we wanted a "live" sound. most bands out there now have a real processed sound that is due mainly to over triggering. people will use samples but not set it right and you have this obvious fake sound. dimmu borgir for example. i love the band, but come on that shit sounds good but fake as hell....i used arch enemy as a ref that a lot of american bands try to get that swedish sound and fail.
we have used samples on all our records, and are responsible for the snare drum you have heard on most of colins records after he did impossibility...i just wanted to get away from using it as much as possible being this was andols first record back. i wanted it to sound as natural and big as possible so the listener wouldn't think the stuff he is playing sounds fake or something.
i tried to explain this to a journo, but that's like trying to teach suecof how to walk.
we are very happy with andy's mix. i will say that we all feel it's our best sounding record to date.
true story i even got a little choked up when i heard the test mix... i didn't know what to expect when i got it and i was blown away.
usually when you get a test mix it takes a while to get it right, andy nailed it on the first try.
although, he should have kept me and suecof's vocals at the end of black heart in.
