In Flames New Album being released in Q2 of 2014 thread

[ciko_gfb]

http://imgur.com/rNbbjzy

To give a short answer, the best thing in IF was most probably what our Bottled-lover friend here said about the mixture of musical orientations from the Jesper-Anders-Björn trio.

What did Anders do on TJR exactly? It sucks to be honest. The singer in subterranean was million times better than Anders on TJR. You listened to Skydancer? Do it, if you did not yet. That has got to be the shittiest vocal performances I heard, and yes, I listened to Rebecca Black's Friday.
On TJR he played it safe. Let me present Moonshield with Anders: "waaah wah wah, wah wah wah wahwah". Now let me present how it would sound if they dragged in some hobo for the streets to do it: "waah wah wah, wah wah wah wahwah". Sure, it sounds nice, I mean it's a pretty melody, but it's all about the music. Not to mention the songs where the growls doesn't even have much melody in them. They are empty as fuck, unless you are reaaaallly into that stuff, but even then, the MDM scene had to be a really sad one if Anders' growls on TJR were to be called remarkable.

It's much better on Whoracle and Colony, but it doesn't have that trademark Anders feel to it which surfaced on Clayman first. When he actually plays around his voice, it's like a beautiful imperfection. You know, that cute girl who has a mole on her face. It's a degeneration, and I'm sure a lot of girl are less attractive by it, but that particular one is a 100 times more sexy thanks to it. That's how I see Anders' power as a vocalist, and songs like Crawl Through Knives, Vacuum, Leeches, The Quiet Place etc. are good examples. I love when his voice cracks, and he's a smart man, because he recognized it's appeal and used it a lot IF songs. Crawl Through Knives is heavy, angry, soft and fragile in one. It's just so cool and makes the song really interesting. Now, that's when I'd say it's challenging the audience, but you are not sure if you are listening to some great metal, some gay singer who whines about the sky, or something entirely else.

But let's look a song I reaaally like in almost every aspect from the old catalog - and is not that mainstream -, which is Worlds Within The Margin. Now, that song is growl all over (yeah, there's the talk, but come on...), but it works. It has a nice flow, a nice melody, and the synth compelemnts the singing so fucking good. Do I want an album full of songs like that? Hell no, even that'd be boring (unlike an album full of Crawl Through Knives, hello Come Clarity!), but a song with full growls, full screams or full cleans can be amazing, just not an entire album, especially not many in a row, at least not from a vocal standpoint. Do we like Episode 666 because Anders' yells THIS IS EPISODE 666? Well, it's certainly not the highlight of the song for me. The guitar kills it, hands down.

Anders' vocals on later records definitely played a key part in international success, but I equally love that music itself as well. What I think is really important here is the DRIVE to experiment with things, and if it was mainly Anders who urged his bandmates to that direction, then yes, probably he is the most important "thing" in the band's history, but given that their early records were heavily carried by the guitarists, while ANders tried to be either not annoying (but irrelevant) or decent (which is not enough to win this vote), an arguement could be made that without those kick-ass melodies he'd never had the luxury to say "hey guys, let's try something new, shall we?".

I also noticed almost everyone here likes his lyrical talent, so let's not forget that either.

Well, TJR could be wrong example so that's my fuck up. Anyway. So it looks like you're really big fan of Crawl Through Knives, which I also like it very much. So I'll give you that song for example. The reason that this song is so powerful is Anders. Guitars are very nice I won't deny that. But the thing Anders did on chorus, the variations (clean to scream, scream to clean) its very amazing and special. If Mikael Stanne or someone else sang this song instead of Anders, I really dont think that this song would that be powerful. After Clayman Anders really shines and becames most important factor of the IF since they did guitar driven songs before Clayman. Another example for me is My Sweet Shadow. Really nice powerful intro,good rifs. But with Anders's vocals song goes another level which made song one of the hits of IF. And I dont think anyone else can does that.

But of course, he always didnt do the right thing. In ASOP, Anders sounds awful and that's the big reason of why ASOP sucks. It's not just Anders fault of course, but he's the main part of it.

 

[DE4life]

He's eochaid, just ignore him.

So here's a new topic. I think the most important thing for IF is Anders's vocals. Thing that made IF special is Anders's vocals. If we had a list for most important thing for IF, 1 would be vocals and then it would be melodies. If we put someone else on Jester Race it wouldnt be good as that. Or any other albums. Yes he could take an album to minus (ASOP), but if he's vocals good than the album becomes greater. Anyone agrees?

Depends what era you're referring to.

1994-2000, guitar melodies are the most important ingredient by far.

2002+, for better or worse, is the vocals.

As an aside, it's worrying but not surprising that Jester Slave admits to finding Anders sexy.

 

[Jester Slave]

STYE is interesting, because the guitars remained extremely relevant and powerful, despite Anders' very accessible vocals. It's similar to CC, but on CC everything is thrashed down, everything sounds raw, while STYE is like the sugarcoated version of that. I think that album has the best mixture of what In Flames has been in their career until now. Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about individual songs, I'm not saying those are the very best IF songs, but the way they could blend their strengths on that album was really good. Yeah, people must've hated it when it came out, but if we are looking through from TJR to SC, STYE and CC are the middle ground.

And R2R is the one who just doesn't give a shit and is just being R2R. What a baller, that's why he's my favorite. I mean, it, of course.

 

[Jester Slave]

As an aside, it's worrying but not surprising that Jester Slave admits to finding Anders sexy.

That's not where I was going with that analogy, but I might've made a Freudian slip.

 

[eochaid]

When did he do that? Isn't he saying (almost) the exact opposite?

Here

I mean, personally, I would like to challenge the listener a little bit — make them think and not be… almost like I wanna provoke them to a reaction

You need to pay more attention since is the second time I make that quote (I'm a lazy man).

 

[eochaid]

He's eochaid, just ignore him.

So here's a new topic. I think the most important thing for IF is Anders's vocals. Thing that made IF special is Anders's vocals. If we had a list for most important thing for IF, 1 would be vocals and then it would be melodies. If we put someone else on Jester Race it wouldnt be good as that. Or any other albums. Yes he could take an album to minus (ASOP), but if he's vocals good than the album becomes greater. Anyone agrees?

Another one who should stop touching himself while talking bout Anders.

 

[ciko_gfb]

Another one who should stop touching himself while talking bout Anders.

It's a fact man, get over it. Maybe you're not a fan of new materials I can get that, really. But most of the new fans are listening this group because of vocals. Because of Anders this group became this succesful.

 

[Jester Slave]

Here


You need to pay more attention since is the second time I make that quote (I'm a lazy man).

That sentence can be interpreted in more than one way.

 

[eochaid]

Of course. You can twist the words the way you want so tthat they fit tour own opinions. But, lets play the game. Give an interpretation that leaves apart the words peoploe or fans.

 

[eochaid]

It's a fact man, get over it. Maybe you're not a fan of new materials I can get that, really. But most of the new fans are listening this group because of vocals. Because of Anders this group became this succesful.

Another one who made surveys between people. I need to do my own. So you're saying that Anders is the one who can make a band successful. Well done with passenger.

But lets talk about known data (this is US only and first weekend):
The jester Race: 11,317
Colony: 22,810
Clayman: 21,773
Reroute to Remain: 59,010
Soundtrack to Your Escape: 10,659
Come Clarity: 24,000
A Sense of Purpose: 20,000
Sounds of a Playground Fading: 14,000
Siren Charms: 9,000

Oh, now I see how Anders vocals improvement led the band to success. But, before you say the word piracy, remember that piracy did existed by year 2000 and before and, as for example, in 2006 was a problem as big as there is now.

 

[Jester Slave]

Another one who made surveys between people. I need to do my own. So you're saying that Anders is the one who can make a band successful. Well done with passenger.

But lets talk about known data (this is US only and first weekend):
The jester Race: 11,317
Colony: 22,810
Clayman: 21,773
Reroute to Remain: 59,010
Soundtrack to Your Escape: 10,659
Come Clarity: 24,000
A Sense of Purpose: 20,000
Sounds of a Playground Fading: 14,000
Siren Charms: 9,000

Oh, now I see how Anders vocals improvement led the band to success. But, before you say the word piracy, remember that piracy did existed by year 2000 and before and, as for example, in 2006 was a problem as big as there is now.

These sales can prove each side with that R2R number. Sales are far from being too relevant anyway. I mean, shall I say that ASOP is two times better than TJR? Jeez, the vocals must be two times as better as well!

It's just stupid. Also, it was Anders whose peformance did the most to reach mainstream media, which netted them their success they are living on ever since.

Of course. You can twist the words the way you want so tthat they fit tour own opinions. But, lets play the game. Give an interpretation that leaves apart the words peoploe or fans.

Like you could not twist it just the same, as you did

He did not imply the retardation which is doing music for the fans, he simply said that one of the reasons why he likes to switch things up is to challenge the fans, but it is not the main reason. They said multiple times they always do what THEY think sounds awesome, so don't get so salty just because he mentioned fans now.

 

[eochaid]

These sales can prove each side with that R2R number. Sales are far from being too relevant anyway. I mean, shall I say that ASOP is two times better than TJR? Jeez, the vocals must be two times as better as well!

It's just stupid. Also, it was Anders whose peformance did the most to reach mainstream media, which netted them their success they are living on ever since.

That's your interpretation. Mine is that, when they put more effort on vocals than in music, they fail. My point? STYE has lower numbers than R2R, the numbers rise again with CC, then fall a little with ASOP and drop definitely with the last two albums.

But, I'm not saying that Anders might not try to improve his vocals, or that he is a lesser part of the band (he is now the most important instrument in the band), but the numbers say that people seems a little more interested in music than in Anders vocal abilities.

As for Anders being the main cause behind success, I'm gonna say this again: without IF, only a few do care about Anders music, and this is why he goes on doing his stupid experiments with the band, so it looks like a bad joke saying that he is the one behind the success of the band, specially when the media (in the past years) paid more attention to Jesper and Bjorn's work than that from Anders.

Like you could not twist it just the same, as you did

He did not imply the retardation which is doing music for the fans, he simply said that one of the reasons why he likes to switch things up is to challenge the fans, but it is not the main reason. They said multiple times they always do what THEY think sounds awesome, so don't get so salty just because he mentioned fans now.

Stop, I did not say that they do music for the fans (at least, not for the old fans), but that thay have people reaction in mind when making music.

To end: you and Ciko are the ones saying that IF success is related to Anders vocal abilities, and you two have nothing to support this statement but your own (subjective) opinions, no data, no numbers, nothing. But everyone has to agree because you two are too smart or maybe we have to believe that you two know the most of the IF fans and talked with them a lot about the reasons behind the band's success. SO it's only obvious that when, someones shows some numbers you say that it's stupid, because numbers are subjective, this everybody knows.

 

[only4theweak187]

IF has always drawn people with guitar melodies (earlier) and then catchier riffs (reroute and on)

Anders vocals were a close second up until ASOP.

Now they have neither

 

[DE4life]

Anders vocals do make In Flames unique, but to instantly jump to the conclusion that this is the reason for their success is nonsense.

Their route to success is fairly simple - catchy melodies, mainly by guitars, and touring non-fucking-stop for a decade or so. In Flames got in with the American crowd at just the right time in 2002, rode that wave for about four years through R2R and STYE, then hit a commercial peak with Come Clarity and have been downhill ever since.

 

[only4theweak187]

2002. Not one person there really knew their music. My older brother was at this show and stood in the back having known their music since a year before. This particular vid starts with Cloud Connected as a "new single". So historical hahaha.

It's gotta be such crazy grind to constantly have to play shows every night especially as an upcoming band from Europe in the States.

I always day dream about what it would be like to go back in time and personally view something in real time without being able to effect the event but just to simply spectate it. Would be very interesting to watch a set like this being played. Not to mention I'd have loved to see In Flames live at wacken 2003 or live at rock am ring 2006.

 

[Jester Slave]

To end: you and Ciko are the ones saying that IF success is related to Anders vocal abilities, and you two have nothing to support this statement but your own (subjective) opinions, no data, no numbers, nothing. But everyone has to agree because you two are too smart or maybe we have to believe that you two know the most of the IF fans and talked with them a lot about the reasons behind the band's success. SO it's only obvious that when, someones shows some numbers you say that it's stupid, because numbers are subjective, this everybody knows.

It's in this very page where I disagreed with the statement that Anders' vocals are what drives IF, so I don't feel to argue it again.

And don't make such conclusions from sales. STYE is better both musically and vocal-wise than ASOP yet for some reason it had pretty low sales in the US. You either praise the shit out of ASOP (it's almost on par with CC or Clayman) or accept the fact you can't just make the conclusion you want to have from sales. Really, there are only two outstanding numbers, and they are R2R and STYE. R2R had many changes to the classical IF recipe, so we can attribute the success to those things (and it was released at the right time, I suppose). STYE sounds maybe the most generic, but you can't just say Anders sucked on it, because his vocals are almost the same as on CC.

 

[eochaid]

I cannot agree. Music in Asop is better than in style and has a more relevant role. Music in style feels like mere background to Anders vocals with the exception of some good moments. But, you can see: cc better music and good vocals sells more than style. Asop has a drop of quality in music but still is relevant, and a much more drop of quality if we talk about anders and sells a little more. The last two albums, the music is less relevant than the voice, and you have about 10 thousand people less willing to run to the shops to buy the album. Tell me how else you explain the differences from r2r onwards.

 

[Jester Slave]

Hm...

First of all, I'm fairly confident to say that the sales before R2R are boosted by R2R's success. Maybe Clayman and Colony were already being picked up their time in the US, but I highly doubt TJR could net a 10k+ sale in the US at its' release. Clayman had 21,773 sales by the time of April, 2002, and an article from February, 2004 says it's current sales were 39,787 copies. Usually, a record's majority of sales are within the first week, it's really abnormal that within 1,5 years (and don't forget, the 21k+ sales are 2 years after Clayman was released!!!) that a record doubles its' sales on its' own. R2R dragged it up, so it is extremely safe to assume what happened to the other records pre R2R. I know you did not use those numbers, but I wanted to show you how earlier records can be carried, and same goes for the future ones.

Which is why I'm baffled how STYE could do so poorly. You can't be serious, if you blame it on the music. There were numerous records of various bands or singers which were fucking odd and their ratings could be explained with that fact, but STYE is nothing abnormal to those who just witnessed the Clayman-R2R transition. Look at Metallica's Lulu, compare it to the rest of the 'Tallica discography, then compare STYE with the previous IF songs. Also, R2R made people buy almost 20k copies of Clayman, that's how amazed Americans were by IF, so even if STYE was the shittiest record ever released, in 2002 you had to be a complete shitter at advertising to reach those numbers. I remember the piracy in 2002. I installed Kazaa, typed in "Slipknot", I saw a song titled "Slipknot, Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park, System Of A Down, Korn - [song title]", I jizzed my pants, I started downloading, 2 million years (and at least 10 disconnects) later the song was finally downloaded, and it was neither of those bands' song. The majority of the people could only know the quality of the record if they actually bought it, or watched MTV (2), and let's be honest, it seems that record was mainly advertised by TQP, which is not a bad song by any means. It wasn't like today where I already listened to the whole album before it was even released.

And before I continue, I have to ask what is wrong with STYE musically? To me it's CC with a totally different production. I never felt the music was just background, the guitars are very powerful. F(r)iend, Touch Red, Like You Better Dead, In Search For I are probably more memorable for their guitars, and My Sweet Shadow might be "just" background melody for Anders', but a pretty sick melody. The album you described was pretty much SC and not STYE. The only song on SC which gave me the same sense of importance (of guitars) as in the songs in STYE was Filtered Truth and maybe Rusted Nail. But I pop in Touch Of Red and it just punches me in the face, setting the tone for the whole song. I can't remember a single Anders' line from that song, haha.

Now back to sales; suddenly ASOP has qualities, which is an absolutely new to me on this board, but all right. Wikipedia lists ~4000 more sells for CC than ASOP. How is that even possible if we assume numbers are valid argument for a record's quality? You have to come up with the most twisted (and franky, ridiculous) explanation as to why ASOP is seemingly on the same quality level as CC, while both STYE and SOAPF sucked dick sales' wise. Not to mention how extremely comlicated it gets if you take the other records into account.
Clayman could be still labeled as MDM, then came R2R with totally different production, lots of cleans and more prominent electronics, while everything was washed up, so even if you enjoyed the guitars, they were toned down intentionally. Nonetheless, people loved it so much, they actually went on and bought a bunch of Claymans, then came STYE which was still more similiar to R2R than Clayman (though the 3 of them are pretty different, so it doesn't mean much), and the production was clean as fuck, you could distinguish Anders' from the guitars, and it had more perfected "rawry" screams from Anders, still it barely sold, then came CC with the screams being at its' absolute best with less electronics and more raw power, it sold well, then came ASOP which had a toned down production once again but this time you could say bye-bye to those screams, they were replaced by "i feeeel like shiiiiiiiiit" and "pleaseee killl meeeeeeeeeeee" and "moveeeeee throoouuughhh meee", yet for some reason it was sold well again. Then SOAPF with yet another clean production and more versatile vocals than ASOP sold worse. Now based on this, tell me what do the average IF record buyer wants to hear, because I have no idea.

 

[krofius]

Another one who made surveys between people. I need to do my own. So you're saying that Anders is the one who can make a band successful. Well done with passenger.

But lets talk about known data (this is US only and first weekend):
The jester Race: 11,317
Colony: 22,810
Clayman: 21,773
Reroute to Remain: 59,010
Soundtrack to Your Escape: 10,659
Come Clarity: 24,000
A Sense of Purpose: 20,000
Sounds of a Playground Fading: 14,000
Siren Charms: 9,000

Oh, now I see how Anders vocals improvement led the band to success. But, before you say the word piracy, remember that piracy did existed by year 2000 and before and, as for example, in 2006 was a problem as big as there is now.

What the fuck are you smoking? Reroute To Remain sold 60k copies in the first week in US? No comment needed. Only STYE>SC are the correct sales for US first week, not WEEKEND.

 

[DE4life]

It'd be interesting to see overall sales figures for the albums, but not sure that info is even available. I'd like to think SOAPF has more sales than ASOP, but got a bad feeling it won't have... a ton of people probably bought ASOP and gave up on the band (or life in general).