Meshuggah. Simple like or dislike poll
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Manic Ferocity
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Because judging by the song I mentioned, Meshuggah, Korn, and Slipknot all play in a purely rhythmic fashion, but don't really have other specific traits in common. You could call comparing nu-metal bands to each other a "vague" comparison if the only traits they have in common are rhythmic songwriting. Why do I even need to explain this? Do you really need to dissect why a fan of old school metal doesn't like Meshuggah?
Manic Ferocity
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Manic Ferocity
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Because...
1. I simply gave my opinion of Meshuggah and that particular song which was pretty much devoid of hostility (but I guess associating anything people like with nu-metal inherently implies hostility).
2. Hardly anyone talks about OSDM here anymore.
3. I don't just listen to OSDM. Hell there's even some math stuff I like that are actually pretty un-elitist of me.
1. I simply gave my opinion of Meshuggah and that particular song which was pretty much devoid of hostility (but I guess associating anything people like with nu-metal inherently implies hostility).
2. Hardly anyone talks about OSDM here anymore.
3. I don't just listen to OSDM. Hell there's even some math stuff I like that are actually pretty un-elitist of me.
I don't see why people should like stuff that's heavy for the sake of being heavy, without some intelligence inside them. Frederik Thorendal abuses the same chords over and over again without having any good riffs. Why should I listen to Meshuggah when there are much better technical bands like Gorguts and Theory In Practice?
Onder
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That's what I thought after listening to those samples. It's just fucking shitty.
King Dedede
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Theory In Practice has some great songs, especially "Colonizing the Sun"! I hardly ever see them mentioned when people discuss good technical music.
Is ObscureInfinity from ANUS?
HamburgerBoy
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I'm saying that "Korn and Slipknot" is the easiest response to give when comparing something to nu metal. It'd be like saying "Hey, band X of non-metal genre Y (let's say 4 Non Blondes to give an example as silly as yours) sounds like metal" and when people ask what metal, you say "Oh, Sabbath and Priest, they all have too many notes". You didn't even try.
And I did look back a page to find the song, that being New Millennium Cyanide Christ. A song that sounds about a hundred times closer to thrash metal to nu metal, even if it isn't a member of the former sub-genre either.
The Ozzman
Melted by feels
Combustion kicks ass.
That said, I didn't really get into Meshuggah until I got DEI. I thought Chaosphere was alright and obZen is really good, but DEI is the best I've heard from this group.
Cythraul
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You have no clue what you're talking about. In what ways, exactly, is that song closer to thrash than nu metal? Seriously, explain it to me in detail, because your claim makes almost no sense to me at all. The song in question has a rhythmic sensibility that is undeniably closer to nu metal than thrash metal. Listen to what part of the measure the rhythmic accents occur in that song; that is so far from a thrash metal rhythmic sensibility it's not even funny. Seriously, how is that not closer to the 'jumpdafuckup' rhythmic style of nu metal? In terms of riff construction there is simply no comparison. Apart from the lead guitar diversions, the riffs are constructed out of little more than a repetitive pattern of a couple of notes acting as little more than handmaiden to the rhythmic pulse of the song. That sort of thing is a hallmark of a lot of nu metal and nothing like any thrash metal I've ever heard. And it is hard to draw comparisons tonally with thrash metal since the riffs in that song are so stripped down as to be almost entirely nondescript in that sense. The more distinctive parts of the song where the lead guitar diversions come in possess more of a prog sensibility.
Seriously, what on Earth are you talking about.
HamburgerBoy
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Yeah yeah, "not enough notes", "stripped down", "jumpdafuckup", "rhythmic and repetitive", ok. Thrash has always been one of the most rhythmic sub-genres of metal itself, and your post only repeated the claim that somehow such a degree of rhythmic centricity is contrary to that. If you want to make me feel like I don't know what I'm talking about (which is certainly possible) you could at least use some fancy music theory terminology to do so.
Manic Ferocity
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So I'm expected to "try" with a genre I don't care to listen to? I related Meshuggah to two bands that I don't like and to a style I don't like. How much more do you want?
How about you name some elements that Meshuggah have in commmon with thrash metal because I quite frankly don't hear any. Unless you are of the ilk that thinks Pantera is thrash, I can't think of any thrash that focuses more on rhythm than riff-work.
Manic Ferocity
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Oh wow. You're an idiot. Listen to some fucking thrash metal or I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you.
HamburgerBoy
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Yes, you are expected to try. If you're going to make a claim that Meshuggah is nu metal you should at least be familiar enough with the sub-genre to give an example. Otherwise you may as well call them mallcore or some similarly derisive and meaningless sub-genre title.
90's Pantera is pretty much thrash, yes, and I don't see how rhythm and "riff-work" are especially exclusive. I wouldn't simply call Meshuggah "thrash metal" if I was asked what they played, but they're still closer to that than nu metal. Their riffs are still "chuggier" in the thrash sense than nu metal, utilizing more 16th-note palm-muted riffs than the sliding reverb-upped style more common in the typical "Slipknot and Korn". Admittedly neither riff style can define either genre since you can find both utilized in the other, but that's simple enough as a starting point in an argument where you haven't given any description.
Manic Ferocity
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Thrash doesn't have "chuggy" riffs though. Are you only basing this on the fact that you consider 90s Pantera thrash? Palm muted riffs don't make a band thrash metal.
I am familiar enough with nu-metal to know what it sounds like and just because Korn and Slipknot are considered "derogatory" nu-metal bands doesn't change the fact that they are, in fact, still nu-metal bands. I have absolutely no idea where you're going with that argument.
I am familiar enough with nu-metal to know what it sounds like and just because Korn and Slipknot are considered "derogatory" nu-metal bands doesn't change the fact that they are, in fact, still nu-metal bands. I have absolutely no idea where you're going with that argument.
HamburgerBoy
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Thrash has been full of chuggery since Exodus' And Then There Were None, if not earlier. Extremely simple riffs with merely "a repetitive pattern of a couple of notes" is commonplace in thrash metal. If you are familiar enough with nu metal then you should be able to do better than name drop the two most famous nu metal bands as basis for similarity to Meshuggah. Hell, even Slipknot and Korn aren't that similar to one another.
Manic Ferocity
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I never said they were other than the fact that they do have a primarily rhythmic songwriting method, which nu-metal IS characterized by. I can namedrop other nu-metal bands but I don't honestly even see how it would support my argument or how that has anything to do whatsoever with Meshuggah being more thrash than nu-metal.
NO thrash metal is that rhythmic. I never said there aren't rhythmic sections in thrash but there aren't entire songs based out of rhythm. Pantera isn't thrash, by the way.
NO thrash metal is that rhythmic. I never said there aren't rhythmic sections in thrash but there aren't entire songs based out of rhythm. Pantera isn't thrash, by the way.
HamburgerBoy
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To be fair you didn't, but you did say that they sound like nu metal, which you haven't really justified. And I still don't know what you mean by "that rhythmic", "rhythmic sections", and "entire songs based out of rhythm". You're using the word quite vaguely, and as it is one that can be defined quite vaguely I have to question its use here entirely. Oh wait, it's all the "niggerdom" that defines it, rite? Liek, rhythm & blues. Black people music. lol.
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