no country for old wainds
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- Nov 23, 2002
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The Official Movie Thread
- Thread starter Manic Ferocity
- Start date
Einherjar86
Active Member
Inception was really good, as expected.
However, I want to bring something up (SPOILER ALERT):
For those who've seen the film: was anyone else slightly disappointed/disturbed that Nolan chose not to explore more of the ethical complications of possibly completely altering a human being's freedom of choice? I felt that, in the end, the team was portrayed as having this sense of righteousness and fulfillment at having completed their mission; this message was given that Fischer understood that he should live his own life rather than the life that his father wanted him to.
But we have no idea what Fischer's father actually whispered to him. Fischer said he heard the word "disappointed." For all we know, his father could have said he was disappointed that he failed to spend more time with his son. Cobb's team planted suggestions in Fischer's subconscious to encourage his mind to come to the conclusion that his father wanted him to "live his own life." There's no reason to assume that this was the case. I felt that Nolan left the audience with too much confidence in the righteousness of the protagonists' cause. By the end we felt glad that they succeeded, but maybe instead we should question whether or not what they did was right at all.
EDIT: essentially, it seemed as though the film was making excuses for justifying the team's tampering with someone else's decision (i.e. "what we did was right, because Fischer should live his own life").
However, I want to bring something up (SPOILER ALERT):
For those who've seen the film: was anyone else slightly disappointed/disturbed that Nolan chose not to explore more of the ethical complications of possibly completely altering a human being's freedom of choice? I felt that, in the end, the team was portrayed as having this sense of righteousness and fulfillment at having completed their mission; this message was given that Fischer understood that he should live his own life rather than the life that his father wanted him to.
But we have no idea what Fischer's father actually whispered to him. Fischer said he heard the word "disappointed." For all we know, his father could have said he was disappointed that he failed to spend more time with his son. Cobb's team planted suggestions in Fischer's subconscious to encourage his mind to come to the conclusion that his father wanted him to "live his own life." There's no reason to assume that this was the case. I felt that Nolan left the audience with too much confidence in the righteousness of the protagonists' cause. By the end we felt glad that they succeeded, but maybe instead we should question whether or not what they did was right at all.
EDIT: essentially, it seemed as though the film was making excuses for justifying the team's tampering with someone else's decision (i.e. "what we did was right, because Fischer should live his own life").
Thanatopsis123
ç½é¬¼
His team hardly cared if it was right or not. And Saito only wanted the company broken up because it was too fucking huge. It was soon going to have control of more than 50% of the entire energy market. That's a scary thought.
Einherjar86
Active Member
That doesn't cut it for me. Is the film taking a stance on free market economics then? That doesn't justify completely obliterating a human being's free will.
arg
Active Member
- Jun 4, 2008
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SPOILERS
they didnt force him to do anything, they merely suggested it through a dream, and from Fischer's point of view it was his idea and he's free to act on it or not.
...
what about that ending though, talk about a mindfuck! here's my take on it, when Cobb and Mal were in their dream world, they were actually 2 dream-levels down, and when they woke up they were still dreaming. so when Mal died, she actually woke up in the real world and Cobb is still 1 dream-level down (where the whole movie takes place) and he has to die 1 more time (or wake up) to get to the real world.
but then the problem with this theory is... the top falls down at other times in the movie (Cobb's perception of the real world). FUCK!
they didnt force him to do anything, they merely suggested it through a dream, and from Fischer's point of view it was his idea and he's free to act on it or not.
...
what about that ending though, talk about a mindfuck! here's my take on it, when Cobb and Mal were in their dream world, they were actually 2 dream-levels down, and when they woke up they were still dreaming. so when Mal died, she actually woke up in the real world and Cobb is still 1 dream-level down (where the whole movie takes place) and he has to die 1 more time (or wake up) to get to the real world.
but then the problem with this theory is... the top falls down at other times in the movie (Cobb's perception of the real world). FUCK!
Einherjar86
Active Member
But it's not his idea, and they suggested something that could be completely untrue. Maybe, had Fischer's subconscious not been tampered with, he would have realized that his father regretted not spending more time with him and actually wanted him to expand the business; and if he realized this, he would have wanted to do that!
The movie implies that Cobb and his team suggest what Fischer actually wanted to do, but this is not necessarily the case.
The movie implies that Cobb and his team suggest what Fischer actually wanted to do, but this is not necessarily the case.
unknown
fuck ftagn
actually I want to say there a couple of moments in the movie where Ellen Page's character brings up the ethics of what they do. Her first training scene where she labels "extraction" as stealing, Cobb says "Well...we don't 'steal' it" er something to that effect. and then she or somebody else mentions that what they are doing to Fischer is going to completely change him as a person.
it can also be argued that it's not Nolan's job as a director to smack the viewer over the head with a moral or some kind of meaning. I think the better director merely provides the viewer with a lens into a world they are not familiar with and provide the viewer with knowledge he or she did not already possess and let the viewer come to his/her own conclusions about what they have seen (whether it be the moral issues, the fate of the characters, etc...)
in regards to the top being a caveat to the Cobb is 1 level down theory, we have to remember the top is not actually his totem. it's mal's.
it can also be argued that it's not Nolan's job as a director to smack the viewer over the head with a moral or some kind of meaning. I think the better director merely provides the viewer with a lens into a world they are not familiar with and provide the viewer with knowledge he or she did not already possess and let the viewer come to his/her own conclusions about what they have seen (whether it be the moral issues, the fate of the characters, etc...)
in regards to the top being a caveat to the Cobb is 1 level down theory, we have to remember the top is not actually his totem. it's mal's.
unknown
fuck ftagn
also went and saw Salt this weekend and thought it was way better than I expected it to be. The writer/director of Equilibrium, Kurt Wimmer, wrote the script for Salt, so that may have had something to do with it. But yes, I was pleasantly surprised with it.
Matt
Active Member
Einherjar86
Active Member
Good response.
I did realize that Ariadne was providing the film with its source of ethical inquiry, and I was pleased that Nolan chose to include such a character. Also, it may not be Nolan's duty as director to "smack" the viewer, but I find it slightly disturbing that many people will inevitably walk away from this film without even recognizing the fact that Cobb's team committed a questionably unethical act. The tone of the film's conclusion suggested far too much optimism, in my opinion. It could have done with a darker uncertainty as to their mission.
Of course, as you said, maybe the top spinning at the end is supposed to give us more to question than we initially suspect.
unknown
fuck ftagn
holy shit this was a good movie!
SPOILER ALERT
I got the chills big-time when I saw the "daddy bracelet". My little daughter just made me one of those bracelets.
And the poison puffer fish handgun was fookin brilliant.
Psychonaut
God Of Emptiness
The Wolfman - Hmm. On one hand, the sets, cinematography, and costumes were great and I appreciate they kept his look the same from the old movies. The actual makeup was cool. Liked the blood and violence as well. On the other hand, the love interest was unbelievable which rendered at lot of it useless in my eyes. Also, some of the CGI was terrible.
Badbird
Never banned
The Emptier
t3h b3aSt0rZ
Still talking about inception
well this is what i think...it makes the most sense...
SPOILER....sorta..
It's all a dream. Pure and straight. "inception" and going into peoples brains etc. are all part of a dream of cobb's; why is his wife on the opposite building when she jumps? and when hes running away and the buildings close in on him? and when his wife asks him about being chased around the globe by faceless goons? and in the end we don't actually see how saito and cobb get back, and his dad just happens to be there waiting to pick him up and when he sees his kids they are in the same spot, seemingly the same age, as well as wearing the same clothes it looked like. and his totem could've been teetering at the end from some outside force. and if you don't believe it was ALL a dream than you can still admit he would still be dreaming, the totem could've been moving from the plane landing or something...i dunno just thoughts.
anyways, i'm looking for films that invoke a certain dark atmosphere, like the mise en scene of a jean pierre jeunet movie, a classic film noir, or old german expressionism, even newer stuff like sin city, kill bill etc. not the stories per say but just the fact they bring different elements into new films...just something dark, provocative, good soundtrack, etc. etc.
i have on my list to watch
the cabinet of dr caligari
metropolis
the maltese falcon
the third man
titus
henry: portrait of a serial killer
8 1/2
I dunno, i have this idea in my head that i'm trying to draw more inspiration for...after always been immersed in films and film making (dads a producer, he's currently working on extreme makeover home edition) i'm really taking a liking to wanting to work with films, film composing would be great but i also want to introduce this idea i have in my head...i can't describe or explain it but after watching some of these movies and more recc's i might have a better grasp on it
well this is what i think...it makes the most sense...
SPOILER....sorta..
It's all a dream. Pure and straight. "inception" and going into peoples brains etc. are all part of a dream of cobb's; why is his wife on the opposite building when she jumps? and when hes running away and the buildings close in on him? and when his wife asks him about being chased around the globe by faceless goons? and in the end we don't actually see how saito and cobb get back, and his dad just happens to be there waiting to pick him up and when he sees his kids they are in the same spot, seemingly the same age, as well as wearing the same clothes it looked like. and his totem could've been teetering at the end from some outside force. and if you don't believe it was ALL a dream than you can still admit he would still be dreaming, the totem could've been moving from the plane landing or something...i dunno just thoughts.
anyways, i'm looking for films that invoke a certain dark atmosphere, like the mise en scene of a jean pierre jeunet movie, a classic film noir, or old german expressionism, even newer stuff like sin city, kill bill etc. not the stories per say but just the fact they bring different elements into new films...just something dark, provocative, good soundtrack, etc. etc.
i have on my list to watch
the cabinet of dr caligari
metropolis
the maltese falcon
the third man
titus
henry: portrait of a serial killer
8 1/2
I dunno, i have this idea in my head that i'm trying to draw more inspiration for...after always been immersed in films and film making (dads a producer, he's currently working on extreme makeover home edition) i'm really taking a liking to wanting to work with films, film composing would be great but i also want to introduce this idea i have in my head...i can't describe or explain it but after watching some of these movies and more recc's i might have a better grasp on it
Einherjar86
Active Member
The Emptier
t3h b3aSt0rZ
I know my dad has the third man and we watched the privew to see what it was about but it was the dumbest thing ever, every five seconds it said THE THIRD MAN and literally didn't shed any light on the plot, but now i want to watch it 
rms
Active Member
Im feeling the same way, but in my opinion it's a really weak movie. Sure the idea is awesome and was cool to be apart of a mindfuck for 2 hrs or so, but why would I watch it again? I feel like he didn't delve deep enough into anything, maybe ill watch it again if it plays on post but im really unsatisfied by the great Nolan!
The Emptier
t3h b3aSt0rZ
read my post about what i think about the ending, you're "darker uncertainty" and the optimism could be explained by my (and others) theories
Srontgorrth
Member
Saw The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, a Swedish mystery/thriller. Pretty interesting and enjoyable, didn't get boring over the 2 and a half hours. I'm looking forward to seeing the next one.
