The Official Movie Thread
- Thread starter Manic Ferocity
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no country for old wainds
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there's also A PROPHET and STARRED UP in that genre, both pretty good. although i'd rather just watch PORRIDGE or even PRISON BREAK tbh.
BRAWL IN CELL BLOCK 99 is by the realmbuilder guy, looking forward to seeing that one.
Oblivious Maximus
I am the worm
It is rather brilliant and endlessly quotable.
And who can forget "Well fuck me gently with a chainsaw"? Its being modernized and rebooted for TV which should sicken any fans of the film as that clearly means its going to completely miss the point of the film. Oh the humanity.
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
rms
Active Member
saw Disaster Artist and i'm pretty sure the Franco's and Rogen's made a 1.5 hr film making fun of a guy who might be disabled.
Draehl
Lurker
No story spoilers, but hugely disappointed in The Last Jedi. The only redeeming factor was the special effects- especially the bits in space with the Star Destroyers. That said it has a VERY feminist slant to it. FWIW I thought it was awesome they went with a female lead in TFA and Rey has turned out to be a pretty great hero if you consider her in isolation to the rest of the story, but it crossed into aesthetically tacky territory the way TLJ is so bluntly pushing an agenda. The exceedingly large number of female military personnel, the way nearly all the male characters are portrayed as brash, stupid, or unstable in some way, and the 3-4 times the female characters rather specifically "put the man in their place". I walked out rather pissed, both at the overall (lack of) story and how the Star Wars franchise was so unabashedly used to promote a political stance.
no country for old wainds
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Draehl
Lurker
Aside from the "Quit holding my HAND" line that felt a bit forced I really didn't get those vibes ofF TFA.
Dak
mentat
Watched The Fellowship of the Ring and The Two Towers last night with the kids (first time for them). Really impressed with how they have held up after all these years.
Einherjar86
Active Member
This contrasts drastically with what I've heard from people who saw it.
I think it's frustrating that a movie can't portray a majority of female leads without promoting a political angle. All films can do is interject one female lead here and there, and always buttressed by a collection of male costars. It speaks to the already-political masculinism of Hollywood that as soon as a film features mostly women in positions of power, it can only be seen as a pro-feminist ploy.
I think there should be more films that overcompensate the feminist side, and I realize I'm probably in the minority on that opinion. Star Wars is already a fantasy, so let it fantasize a world where women have more power than men do. I for one am excited to see the new movie.
Draehl
Lurker
That's completely fair on the number of women in the movie, which wasn't a problem in-and-of itself, but when taken into context of the other stuff it's a bit of a head scratcher.
When you get a chance to see it watch for the times where there men are effectively told to sit down and shut up. Or just generally how the men are so "unstable" and there's not a single wise, even keeled male character in the whole movie. Broadly, I think this is a symptom of political overeaction regardless of the actual topic.. Rather than simply righting the wrongs of the past there always has to be an overreaction, which then stirs folks on the other side of the equation from "good for you, problem fixed" to "wtf, now I'm on the receiving end?" It feels like the difference between justice and vindication.
Dak
mentat
crimsonfloyd
Active Member
Draehl is being a crybaby. It wasn't pushed. Most of the Resistance leaders are women, but considering that leadership basically consisted of 3 people (one being Leia), it's far from some grand declaration on the part of Johnson.
As far as male characters being portrayed as brash, save the "bad guys," you're basically talking about one character, and it fits what we saw of that character in the first film. It also fit really well into said character's personal development, so overall, you're crying about nothing.
Saw the movie twice now. Enjoyed it much more the second time. I think part of that is that it's long as fuck, a shit-ton happens, and it's a lot to process.
My thoughts on the Last Jedi:
As far as male characters being portrayed as brash, save the "bad guys," you're basically talking about one character, and it fits what we saw of that character in the first film. It also fit really well into said character's personal development, so overall, you're crying about nothing.
Saw the movie twice now. Enjoyed it much more the second time. I think part of that is that it's long as fuck, a shit-ton happens, and it's a lot to process.
My thoughts on the Last Jedi:
What I loved about the movie:
Pretty much everything involving the Force was extraordinary. Everything involving any combination of Rey, Luke, and Kylo was excellent. Mark Hammil and Adam Driver were both excellent. The chemistry between Rey and Kylo was super compelling. Oddly, I'm pretty sure they're in love, though Rey may have shut the door on that possibility at the end of the film. With that said, I'm super interested to see where it goes. All the philosophical stuff with Luke and Rey was quite well done. And Luke's astral projection was one of the best "gotcha" moments I've seen. Absolutely brilliant twist.
Finn and Rose were another great pairing. These are two really great and unique characters.
I actually really liked all the animals. The porgs were adorable and funny without being annoying (i.e. Ewoks or Gungans). Those llama like animals on the casino planet and the crystal dogs were also badass.
The space battles were dope and the flying of the cruiser through the dreadnaught was a show-stopper.
What I didn't like about the movie:
The casino scene. While I like the idea of showing that capitalists are profiting off both sides of the war, the casino was so transparently based off a Las Vagas. It reminded me of the prequels where they would just do some lazy recreation of something from our world.
What the fuck was the point of Snoke? We know nothing about him and he's already dead. Really poorly developed character.
What the fuck was the point of Phasma? They hyped this character so much only to have her get her ass kicked in two movies and then die, without doing anything cool.
What the fuck happened with Leia in space? I guess we can chalk it up to "the Force" saved her, but it felt extraordinarily out of place.
Pretty much everything involving the Force was extraordinary. Everything involving any combination of Rey, Luke, and Kylo was excellent. Mark Hammil and Adam Driver were both excellent. The chemistry between Rey and Kylo was super compelling. Oddly, I'm pretty sure they're in love, though Rey may have shut the door on that possibility at the end of the film. With that said, I'm super interested to see where it goes. All the philosophical stuff with Luke and Rey was quite well done. And Luke's astral projection was one of the best "gotcha" moments I've seen. Absolutely brilliant twist.
Finn and Rose were another great pairing. These are two really great and unique characters.
I actually really liked all the animals. The porgs were adorable and funny without being annoying (i.e. Ewoks or Gungans). Those llama like animals on the casino planet and the crystal dogs were also badass.
The space battles were dope and the flying of the cruiser through the dreadnaught was a show-stopper.
What I didn't like about the movie:
The casino scene. While I like the idea of showing that capitalists are profiting off both sides of the war, the casino was so transparently based off a Las Vagas. It reminded me of the prequels where they would just do some lazy recreation of something from our world.
What the fuck was the point of Snoke? We know nothing about him and he's already dead. Really poorly developed character.
What the fuck was the point of Phasma? They hyped this character so much only to have her get her ass kicked in two movies and then die, without doing anything cool.
What the fuck happened with Leia in space? I guess we can chalk it up to "the Force" saved her, but it felt extraordinarily out of place.
TageRyche
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I liked Star Wars: The Last Jedi but I didn't love it. For that reason, I guess you could say I was disappointed in it overall. It makes my Top 10 movies of the year list but more by the fact that the movies ranked under it were, to me, lesser films.
no country for old wainds
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my sole hope is that he brought some of the weirdness of LOOPER and his BREAKING BAD eps and didn't sell out to the hollywood conveyor belt.
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
Rey is a straight up Mary Sue trope with little to nothing else to fill the character out. For me the best moment of The Force Awakens was when Han Solo offered Rey a gun and she said "I can take care of myself" to which he responded "I know, that's why I'm giving it to you" and for me it was almost as if the filmmakers were conscious of how overly I don't need no man cringe the character was being and that was a bit of fun-poking.
What an awful opinion. Did Ghostbusters flop because of masculinism or did it flop because it was less about a gender switch of the cast and more about the shoehorning of feminist politics into a movie to the point that it even alienated potential female fans?
Will a leftist ever just admit that there is a modern feminist agenda in many films these days? Just one? You guys seem so scared to ever admit it, as if you know modern feminism is some toxic bullshit so you refuse to ever see it in films even though you claim to be feminists or at least support it ideologically.
I haven't seen The Last Jedi yet but the idea that there will be a bunch of feminist horseshit in it doesn't surprise me at all because there was some in The Force Awakens. Btw it's usually not defined as many women in the cast and many of them are capable that's actually what fans want believe it or not, nobody wants a damsel-in-distress Ripley for example.
It's usually defined by a capable female character(s) who is not capable on her own merits (like Ripley is) but rather is capable by contrast to the absolutely useless males around her. There was a similar dynamic with Furiosa and Max.
Fin in The Force Awakens was basically a complete retard compared to the junker-come-Kylo-defeater Rey who was just good at everything.
I still enjoyed The Force Awakens and I loved Fury Road, but it does get a little old after awhile that Hollywood political ideologues sacrifice good writing for appeasing their religion.
*Feminists are so obsessed with power. No concept of balance whatsoever, just pure political agenda-driven mediocrity and franchise-ruination.
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rms
Active Member
Not sure anything screams more bias than someone seeing a brand new movie two times in the three days of it's release.
And on top of that it's in relation to women! The crimsonfloyd threshold
And on top of that it's in relation to women! The crimsonfloyd threshold
Draehl
Lurker
FWIW I liked Fury Road a lot. That's how you tastefully work the feminist angle, unlike TLJ which did it in cringe worthy fashion.
Let's look at the male characters. Pay special attention especially to how badass and/or dignified all the women are and the major character flaws of all the men.
Compare any of these male characters (caveat DJ) to Obi-Wan, Yoda, Vader, Han, Emperor Palpatine, General Veers, Tarkin, Wedge, Boba Fett, etc. and it becomes incredibly obvious how emotionally weak, aimless, and generally useless the men in this movie are.
Let's look at the male characters. Pay special attention especially to how badass and/or dignified all the women are and the major character flaws of all the men.
Luke - Like Obi-Wan in the hermit aspect, but way negative and not nearly as helpful. Redeems himself some in the end but at what cost? (hell, even Mark Hamill said he wasn't a fan of how Luke was portrayed)
Kylo Ren - Emotional train wreck Darth Emo.
General Hux - Okay, he's got some potential, but keeps getting put down by Kylo/Snoke and comes off as so whiny and weak compared to most of the Imperial leaders of old.
Snoke - I thought he would be the redeeming quality of Kylo, but nope, he's killed off quite easily for being a Sith/Dark Master. No background at all given to what many thought would go much deeper into his back story, though that's a separate gripe.
Finn - Tries to desert the resistance. Twice gets shut down by Rose (stunned on escape pod) and when he reaches a redeeming moment (taking out the laser) is rammed off by Rose, again shutting him down. In fact his whole story in this one is nearly completely dictated by Rose.
Poe - Way too brash. Fight-first-think later mentality. He's the new series' Han Solo meets Wedge Antilles without the redeeming qualities of either.
DJ - He's actually got his shit together. Of course they had to give him a speech impediment and make him turn traitor. Despite that, he's really the only admirable male character in the whole movie. Love how he puts some perspective to Finn/Rose with the X-Wing Hologram.
Kylo Ren - Emotional train wreck Darth Emo.
General Hux - Okay, he's got some potential, but keeps getting put down by Kylo/Snoke and comes off as so whiny and weak compared to most of the Imperial leaders of old.
Snoke - I thought he would be the redeeming quality of Kylo, but nope, he's killed off quite easily for being a Sith/Dark Master. No background at all given to what many thought would go much deeper into his back story, though that's a separate gripe.
Finn - Tries to desert the resistance. Twice gets shut down by Rose (stunned on escape pod) and when he reaches a redeeming moment (taking out the laser) is rammed off by Rose, again shutting him down. In fact his whole story in this one is nearly completely dictated by Rose.
Poe - Way too brash. Fight-first-think later mentality. He's the new series' Han Solo meets Wedge Antilles without the redeeming qualities of either.
DJ - He's actually got his shit together. Of course they had to give him a speech impediment and make him turn traitor. Despite that, he's really the only admirable male character in the whole movie. Love how he puts some perspective to Finn/Rose with the X-Wing Hologram.
Compare any of these male characters (caveat DJ) to Obi-Wan, Yoda, Vader, Han, Emperor Palpatine, General Veers, Tarkin, Wedge, Boba Fett, etc. and it becomes incredibly obvious how emotionally weak, aimless, and generally useless the men in this movie are.
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crimsonfloyd
Active Member
What you simply to flaws I interpret as space for character development and growth.
Luke- I thought he was phenomenal in this movie and had a great arc. He provided tons of wisdom and insight into the nature of the force, and did a great job as the reluctant Jedi Master with Rey. His interaction with Yoda was a great pivot point that leads him to shift his mind, leading to the most mind-bending, bad-ass force usage in the entire saga.
Kylo Ren- If all you see in Kylo Ren is "emo Vader" then I feel sorry for you, because there was so much more in this performance. This was the most nuanced performance of a darkside character we've seen in the entire saga, save perhaps Vader in Jedi. There's so much going on. We learn that he is at least partially justified in his hatred for Luke and he honestly seems to be on to something (at least partially) with his vision of destroying everything that's old. He's almost a Nietzschian character in that sense. Furthermore, his conflict is compelling. He kills his dad, but doesn't have the heart to kill his mom when the opportunity arises. He's struggling between the light and the dark, and is (in my reading) in love with a lightside user. He killed Snoke and became Supreme Leader by outsmarting someone who was literally reading his mind. How is that not impressive? Vader literally had to die to unshackle himself from Palpatine. Granted, he fails at pulling Rey to the dark, but she fails to pull him to the light, so that's a wash. He does turn into an emo when Luke shows up, but that's because he clearly has a fatal flaw for his family, which Luke expertly exploited.
Finn- He went from wanting to run away to save his ass to being willing to die for the cause. He learned to be selfless and thus became a leader. Rose's rescue from his suicide mission was a smart device for saving him from dying while still revealing the depth of his growth. And Rose's move to save him was no more reckless than his suicide run, so I don't think the gender critique really holds here.
Poe- Again, his arc went over your head. He starts out hot headed, wanting to blow everything up. That leads to two bad impulsive decisions (blowing up the dreadnaught and the coup). However, he learns from Leia and Holdo and at the end of the movie, makes a more nuanced assessment of the situation with Luke and realizes the Resistance needs to escape. Leia yields the lead to him as he is now showing the needed wisdom to lead. He's now ready to lead the Resistance.
Star Wars has always been about the growth and development of characters through their strengths and struggles and I think some of the male characters had the richest development in this film. (Of the women in the film, I would say Rey had significant character development, though I would also say that say that Leia and Holdo didn't really need it. I would anticipate Rose would have richer development in the next film, as this was really more of an introduction to the character). That you resent the fact that some of these characters' developments were influenced by women suggests more of a problem with you and your relationship to women then it does anything about the film.
Luke- I thought he was phenomenal in this movie and had a great arc. He provided tons of wisdom and insight into the nature of the force, and did a great job as the reluctant Jedi Master with Rey. His interaction with Yoda was a great pivot point that leads him to shift his mind, leading to the most mind-bending, bad-ass force usage in the entire saga.
Kylo Ren- If all you see in Kylo Ren is "emo Vader" then I feel sorry for you, because there was so much more in this performance. This was the most nuanced performance of a darkside character we've seen in the entire saga, save perhaps Vader in Jedi. There's so much going on. We learn that he is at least partially justified in his hatred for Luke and he honestly seems to be on to something (at least partially) with his vision of destroying everything that's old. He's almost a Nietzschian character in that sense. Furthermore, his conflict is compelling. He kills his dad, but doesn't have the heart to kill his mom when the opportunity arises. He's struggling between the light and the dark, and is (in my reading) in love with a lightside user. He killed Snoke and became Supreme Leader by outsmarting someone who was literally reading his mind. How is that not impressive? Vader literally had to die to unshackle himself from Palpatine. Granted, he fails at pulling Rey to the dark, but she fails to pull him to the light, so that's a wash. He does turn into an emo when Luke shows up, but that's because he clearly has a fatal flaw for his family, which Luke expertly exploited.
Finn- He went from wanting to run away to save his ass to being willing to die for the cause. He learned to be selfless and thus became a leader. Rose's rescue from his suicide mission was a smart device for saving him from dying while still revealing the depth of his growth. And Rose's move to save him was no more reckless than his suicide run, so I don't think the gender critique really holds here.
Poe- Again, his arc went over your head. He starts out hot headed, wanting to blow everything up. That leads to two bad impulsive decisions (blowing up the dreadnaught and the coup). However, he learns from Leia and Holdo and at the end of the movie, makes a more nuanced assessment of the situation with Luke and realizes the Resistance needs to escape. Leia yields the lead to him as he is now showing the needed wisdom to lead. He's now ready to lead the Resistance.
Star Wars has always been about the growth and development of characters through their strengths and struggles and I think some of the male characters had the richest development in this film. (Of the women in the film, I would say Rey had significant character development, though I would also say that say that Leia and Holdo didn't really need it. I would anticipate Rose would have richer development in the next film, as this was really more of an introduction to the character). That you resent the fact that some of these characters' developments were influenced by women suggests more of a problem with you and your relationship to women then it does anything about the film.
Draehl
Lurker
Assuming it's always been about character development what's the deal with the original films? Those male characters I listed were already actual men upon their introduction and didn't need to go through a whiny confused build-up phase like Luke. Not every character is going on the hero's journey. A small handful, yes, but the rest are supporting cast and if you compare the male vs female supporting cast the difference is night and day.
That said, I really don't get the ad-hominem you threw at me there. My gripe isn't with feminism, but rather (like I said before) how unbelievably bluntly and distastefully it was presented... to the point of becoming a distraction. It's the same concept as letting far-right, far-left, satanic, etc. sentiments creep too much into metal music. It more often than not is a soapbox that becomes a burden on the presentation of the actual art itself, in this case a fucking space war movie where I can't even for a second suspend disbelief that these men are actually soldiers/rebels/etc.
