The Official Movie Thread

[Einherjar86]

Not saying you're wrong, but I wouldn't have singled Arthur's lines out of a list of criticisms. He's supposed to be an awkward guy who sucks at expressing himself. He can't exactly be full of wit.

That's a fair point, but the Joker is supposed to be full of wit. I guess you can say they took it a different direction, and if that's the case then I'm simply not a fan of this portrayal.

Spoiler

That's probably closer to my broader critique, which I didn't have time to get into earlier. The Joker's eventually mythic rise is based on his status as a supergenius, albeit a nihilistic one. This film demythologizes him, making his rise out to be little more than a series of accidents. I simply found it to be a less compelling and self-apologetic narrative structure. It felt lazy to me, although I certainly see the appeal in an accident-driven narrative.

Also, I wish they'd played up the class warfare issue, specifically as it pertains to Arthur and the Waynes. Batman's main superhero ability is that he's a billionaire; the Joker's is that he has, almost literally, nothing. Joker nods to that dynamic but doesn't play it up. It could have been an impressive critique but never really gets there. And what's with the age difference between Arthur and Bruce?

tl;dr, Heath Ledger was a much better Joker--but that's largely because Christopher Nolan is much better director than Todd Phillips.

 

[CiG]

Watching:

 

[Funerary_Doom]

**Not really a spoiler but if you haven't seen the Joker don't read**




I saw Joker yesterday, and I was telling my boyfriend I didn't like this Joker because he seemed "weak" to me. However, I used the wrong word. It's not "weak" persay... but all "interesting" qualities that we all know the Joker for having, seemed like this character lacked them (I thought Phoenix's acting was great but the screenplay's approach was obviously very different). Despite feeling a whole lot of sympathy for this character and could understand why he became what he became.... I was missing the witty and unpredictable charm that the Joker typically has. What made Heath Ledger's Joker memorable was you sympathized without knowing his full story. He was THAT fucked up. I don't want to see someone get trampled on over and over again for 2 hours, until they break. It's a bit too predictable and rational for the Joker's character, imo.

 

[Einherjar86]

(no real spoilers here, but I guess don't read if you want to know as little as possible about the movie)

Spoiler

I think a lot of it has to with the demands placed on an "origin story." What made Ledger's Joker so much better in The Dark Knight was that he has no origin. And in that sense, he becomes emblematic of the unconscious desires, tendencies, and impulses that all humans struggle with. He works simultaneously as an antagonist and a symbolic figure.

Like you say, by presenting an origin story, Joker attempts to offer a rational narrative behind Arthur's descent; but in doing so, it deprives the Joker of everything that makes him a fascinating character.

 

[CiG]

Can't wait to see Joker.

Watching:

 

[rms]

(no real spoilers here, but I guess don't read if you want to know as little as possible about the movie)

Spoiler

I think a lot of it has to with the demands placed on an "origin story." What made Ledger's Joker so much better in The Dark Knight was that he has no origin. And in that sense, he becomes emblematic of the unconscious desires, tendencies, and impulses that all humans struggle with. He works simultaneously as an antagonist and a symbolic figure.

Like you say, by presenting an origin story, Joker attempts to offer a rational narrative behind Arthur's descent; but in doing so, it deprives the Joker of everything that makes him a fascinating character.

Feel like you could say this thing about the way movies have been written for twenty years and why they're trash.

 

[CiG]

I haven't seen it yet but it seems obvious to me from all the interviews I've read that Todd Phillips is less concerned with making a canonical comic book movie and more concerned with subverting the current trend of comic book movies to direct a love-letter to 70's/80's cinematic character studies. He's been banging the "Taxi Driver/King of Comedy/Serpico/Raging Bull are my influences" drum since the film was announced.

I know I haven't seen it yet but this is my expectation going in, and I don't think it was a mere coincidence that Todd chose to depict his Joker as a clown rather than the way more common jester. Seems like an attempt to concretely separate his character from all the others, and clowns unlike jesters which are historically meant to speak truth to power in a comical context (hence the wit) clowns are just there to be mocked and to entertain plebs, though he also obviously jacked much of his story from The Killing Joke.

 

[RadicalThrasher]

Watching

Spoiler

 

[CiG]

Watching:

 

[Einherjar86]

Feel like you could say this thing about the way movies have been written for twenty years and why they're trash.

Say what specifically?

 

[Blurry_Dreams]

Crispin would definitely make an interesting Joker just based on his appearance alone.

Crispin's face is perfect for this role

 

[CiG]

Watching:



Planning to also watch Dogville a bit later on, it's a Kidman day.

Spoiler

 

[RadicalThrasher]

Tonight

Spoiler

 

[no country for old wainds]

Watching:

View attachment 22028

Planning to also watch Dogville a bit later on, it's a Kidman day.

Spoiler

View attachment 22029

then do eyes wide shut and the killing of a sacred deer and stoker imho

 

[rms]

Say what specifically?

over explain rather than leave to doubt

 

[CiG]

then do eyes wide shut and the killing of a sacred deer and stoker imho

I've seen the first two, but never even heard of Stoker.

 

[no country for old wainds]

it’s by the oldboy dude, didn’t get much hype but i liked it as a hitchcock pastiche kinda thing

 

[challenge_everything]

Yeah Stoker is cool.

 

[Einherjar86]

over explain rather than leave to doubt

Yes, I agree.

 

[CiG]

Sion Sono's new movie The Forest of Love is up on Netflix, about to watch it. Kippei Shiina is so awesome.

Edit: That movie was fucking insane.