The thread where you talk about non-metal music you like.

Moving this to the proper thread for my response. Oh, and I know I still need to respond to you in the Libertarianism thread Pat, but there's only so much Internet debate I can stand in any given period of time.

Einherjar86 said:
Everyone hold your goddamn horses.

I disagree that Floyd's instrumental ability is lackluster. Roger Waters is the least talented of the bunch, I'll agree with that; but as was said, his songwriting capabilities make up for that. Gilmour may not be the most technical guitar player, but he's conceived of some of the best guitar solos in music history, and his playing is far more tasteful than most guitarists (I'll take Gilmour over Page any day).
Click to expand...

We might have to agree to disagree here. What you call "tasteful" in Gilmour's playing strikes me as overly precise and by-the-book. I can think of Gilmour solos that blow me away songwriting-wise, but not performance-wise. Page's guitar work, on the other hand, is gritty, visceral, and often very mystical (just think of some of the unearthly howls and moans he pulls off in "Dazed and Confused", for example). Much of Gilmour's guitar work seems like the kind of thing one could master simply by studying sheet music of it for long enough. Feel free to point out counterexamples though.

Einherjar86 said:
Now, you have Nick Mason (drums) and Rick Wright (keys), who are two of the most talented instrumentalists in the business. Mason is a fucking powerhouse on drums (as illustrated on the Live in Pompeii set and other live shows) and Wright is a classically trained pianist; he can play classical, jazz, rock, you name it. He was, by far, the most talented member of that group, and his instrumental ability rivals most professional classical musicians.
Click to expand...

I haven't heard that set so I can't comment on it. I'll try to track it down. I don't really have any beef against those two like I do with Waters and Gilmour, though.

Einherjar86 said:
EDIT: also, Grant, which vocals by Waters do you think sound uninspired? I find him to be one of the most interesting and emotional vocalists in the history of rock music. David Gilmour's vocals can often sound very lethargic, but I think that offers a nice contrast between the two singers (see the song "Not Now John" on the album The Final Cut; both vocalists take turns singing, and it creates a nice dual-personality effect). Gilmour sings the verses; Waters sings the pre-chorus and the softer, subdued parts, and the final verse.
Click to expand...

It's been a long time since I listened to Floyd thoroughly so my memory is fuzzy, but I can't recall any vocals of his on Dark Side of the Moon that weren't just excessively "cool" and slick sounding, and on Obscured by Clouds he just seemed really tired/stoned/out-of-it.

There were some moments on The Wall where he conveyed the air of insanity and neuroticism well, and he had some nice sarcastic deliveries on Animals (I love the lines "You're nearly a laugh / But you're really a cry"), but again there's nothing on those albums that makes me think "Wow, this guy is a really touching singer." He always seems really distant-sounding when he sings.
 
Oh, concerning this bit:

Einherjar86 said:
Pink Floyd is definitely not overrated. I've said before: it's fine if you don't like them, but no way in hell are they overrated.
Click to expand...

There's a whole shitton of people who seem to think Pink Floyd are literally perfect in every respect, so that would likely make them overrated, yes.
 
Close your eyes and you'll be there
It's everything they say
The end of a perfect day
Distant lights from across the bay

Babylon sisters.... shake it!
 
vihris-gari said:
We might have to agree to disagree here. What you call "tasteful" in Gilmour's playing strikes me as overly precise and by-the-book. I can think of Gilmour solos that blow me away songwriting-wise, but not performance-wise. Page's guitar work, on the other hand, is gritty, visceral, and often very mystical (just think of some of the unearthly howls and moans he pulls off in "Dazed and Confused", for example). Much of Gilmour's guitar work seems like the kind of thing one could master simply by studying sheet music of it for long enough. Feel free to point out counterexamples though.
Click to expand...

Agree to disagree then. I don't think it's "by the book" because most of the playing at that time in rock was very bluesy and often fast, energetic, and complex. Gilmour slowed everything down and went for an extremely melodic technique; he chose his notes very carefully and purposefully, and could evoke more emotion by holding out one note than most players could in several bars.

I won't deny that many low-level players can learn how to play Gilmour's solos; but writing them is an entirely different matter, and it takes years of practice and an inherent genius to create those solos (in my opinion).

vihris-gari said:
It's been a long time since I listened to Floyd thoroughly so my memory is fuzzy, but I can't recall any vocals of his on Dark Side of the Moon that weren't just excessively "cool" and slick sounding, and on Obscured by Clouds he just seemed really tired/stoned/out-of-it.

There were some moments on The Wall where he conveyed the air of insanity and neuroticism well, and he had some nice sarcastic deliveries on Animals (I love the lines "You're nearly a laugh / But you're really a cry"), but again there's nothing on those albums that makes me think "Wow, this guy is a really touching singer." He always seems really distant-sounding when he sings.
Click to expand...

Waters didn't sing on Dark Side; that was all Gilmour, I'm pretty sure.

He sang on The Wall, and where you see it as slightly neurotic and insane but not touching, I see it as an incredible display of theatrical singing/acting. He moves me with several performances on that record.

The Final Cut has some even more moving vocals. His vocals on "The Gunner's Dream" begin very soft and touching, and then gradually increase to a heartbreaking scream. The climax of that song is amazing.

And as far as them being overrated, I think that most rational Floyd fans don't think they're perfect, but I can see how lots of people might convey that notion. I don't think they're perfect by any means, but I do think they've released some near-perfect albums.
 
Einherjar86 said:
Agree to disagree then. I don't think it's "by the book" because most of the playing at that time in rock was very bluesy and often fast, energetic, and complex. Gilmour slowed everything down and went for an extremely melodic technique; he chose his notes very carefully and purposefully, and could evoke more emotion by holding out one note than most players could in several bars.

I won't deny that many low-level players can learn how to play Gilmour's solos; but writing them is an entirely different matter, and it takes years of practice and an inherent genius to create those solos (in my opinion).
Click to expand...

I guess that's one way to look at it. I'd have to listen to a whole lot more '60s/early-'70s music before I could make a call on how distinctive his playing style was for the time, but I can see there being a case for that.

Einherjar86 said:
Waters didn't sing on Dark Side; that was all Gilmour, I'm pretty sure.
Click to expand...

Oops.

Einherjar86 said:
He sang on The Wall, and where you see it as slightly neurotic and insane but not touching, I see it as an incredible display of theatrical singing/acting. He moves me with several performances on that record.

The Final Cut has some even more moving vocals. His vocals on "The Gunner's Dream" begin very soft and touching, and then gradually increase to a heartbreaking scream. The climax of that song is amazing.
Click to expand...

Alright, well I'll try to give those a better listen some time.
 
All in all each man in all men
All men in each man.
He can see she can't, she can see
she can
see whatever, whatever.
You may know what I don't know,
but not that
I don't know it and I can't tell you
so you will.

To tell me all man in all men
All men in each man.
He can see she can't, she can see
she can
see whatever, whatever.
You may know what I don't know,
but not that
I don't know it and I can't tell you
so you will have to tell me all.

It hurts him to think that she is
hurting her by him being hurt to think
that she thinks he is hurt by making her
feel guilty at hurting him by her thinking
she wants him to want her. Her wants
her to
want him to get him to want him to get
him to want her she pretends.

He tries to make her afraid by not
being afraid.

You may know what I don't know, but not
that I don't know it and I can't
tell you
so you will
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVE
TO TELL ME AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!

 
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