why do black metallers hate modern Black metal?

[George]

It may not be ear pleasing to most people, but for some it's beautiful music. As for the anti-metal notion, Black Metal was (and should still be) a reaction to the trends in heavy metal. Bands were starting to loose the power and individuality that they once had. The most famous example obviously is the jogging suit wearing death metal bands. Metal shouldn’t be “dumbed down” for the public.

 

[zoidberg]

It may not be ear pleasing to most people, but for some it's beautiful music. As for the anti-metal notion, Black Metal was (and should still be) a reaction to the trends in heavy metal. Bands were starting to loose the power and individuality that they once had. The most famous example obviously is the jogging suit wearing death metal bands. Metal shouldn’t be “dumbed down” for the public.

i use to have a thing for old mans child, they did make some beutiful stuff, but that faded away from my playlist....
metal cant be dumbed down because it was never smart to begin with, from glam bands wearing ligerie, to black metal bands dressing up like freaking kiss (flame away). and death metal has never been made public, thats just dumb. most death metal bands are guys in denem shorts, wearing tomb of the mutilated shirts and spinning thier hair, that is dumb. cool, but dumb, and i dont know how it was ever dumbed down.

 

[Solipsist]

I honestly can't listen to crap like immortal "pure holocaust", that style of BM is not even remotely listenable to me

give me Melo BM any day of the week.

Not to sound redundant, but Pure Holocaust is often considered as *the* definitive work of "melodic" black metal (I put that in quotations because a legit arguement can be made that most black metal is "melodic" anyhow).

I already understand you cannot get into the album (not saying you have to like it, but in no way is it crap by any means) but I clarified this only because the way you worded your sentence made it seem Pure Holocaust was not a "melodic" black metal recording in style (when it actually is).

 

[Belligerent]

I judge black metal like I judge any genre of music. Pure holocaust is fucking atrocious, nonstop mindless blasting, some of the worst production I have ever heard, songwriting that is VERY weak. I can't listen to these super raw BM Bands because it just sounds like utter shit to my ears. I don't mind burzum though...

Agreed Dave. I prefer Damned in Black and Sons of Northern Darkness. The shit production gets the eject from me every time. Like Enslaved for example. Vikingligr Veldi and Frost are my least favorites. Not from JUST shit production but from bad songwriting. I enjoy everything they've done otherwise.

 

[Death Aflame]

I don't think BM is in that bad of shape when compared to recent DM. However, in general there does seem to lower quality to newer bands when compared to the classics. That being said, recent bands like Urfaust, Tearstained, Lunar Aurora (their recent output is far superior to their older stuff), Paysage d'Hiver, Darkspace, Negura Bunget, Epheles, Fanisk etc. make the genre still highly interesting.

 

[~Derek~]

I like the less noticed modern symphonic/BM like Naglfar and Limbonic Art, I think they're doing well for modern bm.

 

[Zephyrus]

I love melodic black metal, I prefer that sound to the norwegian early 90s bm sound.

Getting into black metal is much like the common way of getting into death metal. People start with the more melodic stuff like Gothenburg bands or stuff like Insomnium. Then, they slowly start to appreciate more bands that aren't as melodic such as the Florida death bands, and then eventually the need for melody is reduced enough that bands like Suffocation are enjouable.

The same case can apply to people getting into black metal. Many start with very melodic bands like Dimmu Borgir and Dissection, then once they are adjusted to the other musical aspects their need for melody is reduced and they move on to bands like Emperor and Satyricon, who use melodies but aren't nearly as "melodic". Eventually, the listener is adjusted to black metal music enough that he or she can enjoy the more classic and/or raw black metal coming out of Norway or, more recently, France.

Be patient, or else more willing to explore black metal, because you are still in the process of adjusting to the musical style, to the point that you need melodies to still appreciate it. In a couple months, I think you will start enjoying a lot more of the more traditional black metal that you see venerated by many of us on this board.

 

[zoidberg]

so, in order to grow a liking for BM, i should pouind into my skull like i did DM? could work...

 

[AchrisK]

So aside from the lyrics, and what to call it, how do you all feel about the music on Horde - Hellig Usvart?

 

[unknown]

Bands that duplicate the already known, no? So why bother?

like what Master said earlier, so you want to listen to the same 25 albums over and over again? The bands I listed (except maybe Stiny Plamenu) don't duplicate the original black metal sound...hell, we've even had debates as to whether or not Primordial and Agalloch are black metal. They take the base that black metal was built on, and they expand on it...mix it with elements from other genres. God forbid if a genre should evolve and expand its horizons

 

[CF87]

I'm fine with my satyricon albums, sacramentum, dissection, immortal, darkthrone-ablaze in the northern sky, and mayhem-De mysteriis dom sathanas.

all I really need

Burzum is cool too I just do not have any albums. Black metal to me is like death metal in a way that the genres as a whole suck no matter how much you like some albums.

 

[Hell Awaits Us All]

Getting into black metal is much like the common way of getting into death metal. People start with the more melodic stuff like Gothenburg bands or stuff like Insomnium. Then, they slowly start to appreciate more bands that aren't as melodic such as the Florida death bands, and then eventually the need for melody is reduced enough that bands like Suffocation are enjouable.

The same case can apply to people getting into black metal. Many start with very melodic bands like Dimmu Borgir and Dissection, then once they are adjusted to the other musical aspects their need for melody is reduced and they move on to bands like Emperor and Satyricon, who use melodies but aren't nearly as "melodic". Eventually, the listener is adjusted to black metal music enough that he or she can enjoy the more classic and/or raw black metal coming out of Norway or, more recently, France.

Be patient, or else more willing to explore black metal, because you are still in the process of adjusting to the musical style, to the point that you need melodies to still appreciate it. In a couple months, I think you will start enjoying a lot more of the more traditional black metal that you see venerated by many of us on this board.

my first death metal bands that I loved were suffocation, morbid angel, death, deicide, nile, cannibal corpse, behemoth and then immolation and dismember shortly after. Not exactly gothenburg pop metal

I just can't imagine what is the appeal of something like immortal.

 

[Life Sucks]

I do not hate modern black metal. There are some great modern bm bands. However, too large a percentage of the modern bands are simply generic Darkthrone worship, which gets boring quickly unless it's really 100% excellent. Also, the sheer number of black metal bands today is staggering. There are countless crappy bedroom black metal projects releasing CDs through labels. And the amout of shit flooding the scene today may overshadow the good stuff.

 

[AchrisK]

my first death metal bands that I loved were suffocation, morbid angel, death, deicide, nile, cannibal corpse, behemoth and then immolation and dismember shortly after. Not exactly gothenburg pop metal

I just can't imagine what is the appeal of something like immortal.

Call me whatever, but the first black metal (aesthetic) that I heard was Horde. They are totally old school (or whatever you call it) with the shrill vox and whatnot. At first I thought they were horrible. For whatever reason I kept listening, and I am glad I did. One of my favorite things, which is not immedeately apparent, is the subtle infectious melodies that exist, usually buried in the chaotic riffing. I mean seriously there are times when it is so subtle that it seems to feel it more than you hear it. It will usually end up more in the forefront at some point. And you may not even regognize that it was there earlier until you go back and listen again. That is my experience with Horde. I listen to a bit of other black metal but not a lot, so I am no expert. Other than that, if you don't like the tone or the vocals, then you may never like it.

 

[Hell Awaits Us All]

I don't mind black metal vocals, though I prefer black metal vocals similar to that which michael used in early opeth.

 

[CF87]

Immortal-at the heart of winter is an incredible album.

 

[Belligerent]

my first death metal bands that I loved were suffocation, morbid angel, death, deicide, nile, cannibal corpse, behemoth and then immolation and dismember shortly after. Not exactly gothenburg pop metal

I just can't imagine what is the appeal of something like immortal.

Try Sons of Northern Darkness then. Great production. Guarantee you'll like "Tyrants". You claim to like melodic BM so it should work.

 

[Hell Awaits Us All]

Try Sons of Northern Darkness then. Great production. Guarantee you'll like "Tyrants". You claim to like melodic BM so it should work.

bands I like

anael
sammel
disssection
vinterland
sacramentum
dawn
some burzum

 

[AchrisK]

Yeah, there should be some clarification on what is meant by 'modern black metal'. If it just means black metal that has come out in the past 10 years or so then I wouldn't say I'm very hostile to modern black metal in that sense. I like quite a few releases that have come out in the past 10 years. But the thing is, I always find myself going back to early 90s Norwegian stuff. I also like other stuff from about the same time period, such as Sacramentum, Beherit, etc. All of that older stuff had a certain spirit and a special quality to it which I find hard to put into words. If you look at the founding bands of the 2nd wave you'll find that nearly all of them had their own unique take on a very young style of metal. BM from that time period seems like really pure and honest expression to me. A lot of this newer black metal and post-black metal stuff seems to have this hyper self-awareness to it which just comes off as really contrived. It just seems like a lot of modern bm bands will throw in some random little aesthetic quirks, for lack of a better term, with no meaningful intent behind it. But I find it hard to put this stuff into words. I can't really explain it that well. I'd just rather suggest to you that you listen to all those albums and sort of "live with them" for awhile. It's better to become directly acquainted with the sort of experience you get from the older stuff. Maybe that way you'll come to understand what I mean in a way that no words can really convey to you.

Damn, I feel like this post is really pretentious. Sorry.

I don't think this is pretentious. It makes sense. It's kinda like with thrash. The early bands who pioneered it were each breaking into their own new territory. Each was pretty unique and fresh, and the style was fresh. Then more bands started coming out, some of which were awesome. But as the thrash period went on, it began to fill up with all kinds of bands of all varying degrees of quality, but not much freshness. They may not have been bad, but they weren't contributing much. But the thing that I notice now is that a lot of thrash fans are digging up all kinds of obscure thrash bands from the past and starting to appreciate them for what good they contained. I guess it is more possible now that the thrash era almost completely disappeared for a while and they can be evaluated apart from the original scene.

Or something.

So you could see that in the future with black metal.

 

[Thoth-Amon]

Call me whatever, but the first black metal (aesthetic) that I heard was Horde. They are totally old school (or whatever you call it) with the shrill vox and whatnot. At first I thought they were horrible. For whatever reason I kept listening, and I am glad I did. One of my favorite things, which is not immedeately apparent, is the subtle infectious melodies that exist, usually buried in the chaotic riffing. I mean seriously there are times when it is so subtle that it seems to feel it more than you hear it. It will usually end up more in the forefront at some point. And you may not even regognize that it was there earlier until you go back and listen again. That is my experience with Horde. I listen to a bit of other black metal but not a lot, so I am no expert. Other than that, if you don't like the tone or the vocals, then you may never like it.

I haven't heard that album in years.