Why do Opeth Fans get a bad rap?

I normally use the term "progressive" for music that does not limit itself to certain boundaries, that is eager to explore something new, that does not get stuck in stagnation. Stuff like Cynic, Atheist and so on is not necessarily progressive to me, but technical. See Symphony X for a good example how "progressive bands" can be regressive. That's why i think Bands like Opeth, the newer Enslaved and even Isis are Progressive.
 
mot- said:
I normally use the term "progressive" for music that does not limit itself to certain boundaries, that is eager to explore something new, that does not get stuck in stagnation. Stuff like Cynic, Atheist and so on is not necessarily progressive to me, but technical. See Symphony X for a good example how "progressive bands" can be regressive. That's why i think Bands like Opeth, the newer Enslaved and even Isis are Progressive.
cynic and atheist at the time were progressive...but nowadays obviously its not groundbreaking because many people have copied that since.

i agree on all other accounts with you though...SyX being regressive, and opeth and newer enslaved, etc being quite progressive for being metal.
 
I think Opeth fans get a bad rap due to all those dollfaced beautiful long haired boys lined up on the edge of the stage looking at Mikael's crotch.
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NineFeetUnderground said:
cynic and atheist at the time were progressive...but nowadays obviously its not groundbreaking because many people have copied that since.

i agree on all other accounts with you though...SyX being regressive, and opeth and newer enslaved, etc being quite progressive for being metal.


Agreed, although what do we call bands that were once "progressive", but have since been copied into oblivion and are no longer considered so? I personally think the term progressive is a compliment to a band, so shoud their label be changed from "progressive" to "classic" (or something else) just because they invented something that was copied repeatedly? It's hard to explain what I'm trying to say here...I guess its just that we known certain bands as "prog rock" bands even though their music may be outdated today....are they still prog rock?
 
Inconium Guard said:
Agreed, although what do we call bands that were once "progressive", but have since been copied into oblivion and are no longer considered so? I personally think the term progressive is a compliment to a band, so shoud their label be changed from "progressive" to "classic" (or something else) just because they invented something that was copied repeatedly? It's hard to explain what I'm trying to say here...I guess its just that we known certain bands as "prog rock" bands even though their music may be outdated today....are they still prog rock?

you bring up a good point. this exact question is actually a moderate controversy in prog rock realms...whether or not new bands doing rehashed old school prog rock is still considered prog rock or not.

i do however have a semi answer to this...

usually a new band doing something old DOES indeed bring SOMETHING new to the table. whether it be new creative production techniques, some new element from another genre, or whatever the case may be. I havent really heard any new bands doing old prog rock without adding at least one thing that you cant find in the bands of the past.

If it does indeed happen, i guess one could call those bands classic prog rock bands. to imply that theyre playing old styled progressive rock.
 
NineFeetUnderground said:
If it does indeed happen, i guess one could call those bands classic prog rock bands. to imply that theyre playing old styled progressive rock.


Yeah I like you're point there...I agree, as long as "Prog" is a type of music, and not just meaning a band is innovative, or progressive. But yeah I understand what you mean.
 
yes, but if 'prog' is a type of music (i disagree, at least as far as it applies to metal) then a new band that imitates it (regardless of whether it does bring something new to the table no matter how significant) doesn't need a new genre definition such as 'classic progressive' now does it? it's a contradiction in terms. if a new band imitates an old progressive metal band, and the changes are minimal to a point where it does not step outside the genre, then it should also just be called a 'progressive metal band', and if the changes are significant enough, then it deserves a whole new definition of it's own now doesn't it? 'classic progressive' would not be an appropriate terminology here as it implies that they are playing the 'original' form of progressive metal and we just established that it's different to a point where it needs it's own genre definition. of course this is all based on the premise that 'progressive metal' is a style in itself. as always, when an emergent band is progressive enough that it does not have and significant imitators, it it pointless to assign it with a genre of it's own (hence opeth was just 'opeth' in my head for quite some time), particularily when the band and it's style do not take off, hence 'progressive'. when the stylings of the band establish themselves to a point where is does have a sufficient amount of imitators (similar or identical) it becomes more worthwhile to designate it it's own genre, hence 'melo death metal' with opeth. sure, it still has progressive elements in it, but the primary sound of the band is derived from the aforementioned two elements. of course, if a band is completely incapable of staying still and changes it's style from album to album significanly (and the new styles is not significantly similar to a preexisting genre) then you may as well continue to term them 'progressive metal'.

on a side note, i consider 'prog rock' and 'progressive rock' to be two different genre's (though it's hard to call 'progressive rock' a genre, just like progressive metal).

anyhow, getting back to 9fts previous comment about my social skillz. and my perchant to resort to personal attacks. ok. i've done that once, and i admitted to it. so once makes a trend now? and as far as those people skills i was referring to of yours, you just managed to justify my comment. again. you don't seem to have a single diplomatic bone in your body. moreover you seem completely incapable of even comprehending the fact that you may be wrong. whether you are or not (you have been both) is not the point. you state opionions as if they were facts, and you dismiss my entire argument (no matter how many points i make in a single post) after invalidating a single fact. as i've said before, there is so much room for interpretation as far as genre's are concerned that you have to be willing to accept the fact that depending on where people are coming from, they may choose to define a band in a different way. as long as you can relate to where they are coming from, then their definition of the band has served it's purpose. ie: there is no 'right' way to pigeon hole or define a band. there may be more accurate ways, but none that are absolute. you would find that if you made the attempt (or appearance) of seeing things from another's perspective, they would do likewise. you almost seem to do that with others on occasion, i'm yet to experience this phenomenon however. i'm also yet to experience this vaunted sense of humour of yours. pity.
 
cos people keep telling my my current avatar sucks. i'll keep chaning it till everyone is happy. if you like this one just let me know.
 
PoS said:
cos people keep telling my my current avatar sucks. i'll keep chaning it till everyone is happy. if you like this one just let me know.


I like the eye...It's a little creepy, being a close-up shot and all, but its pretty too! I say keep it.
 
PoS....

in theory, what youre saying about the genres could be true...but youre missing a very important aspect to this argument.

Progressive rock was an entire genre of its own. With literally thousands of bands over a 2 decade period, and in many cases is still a genre worldwide...who influence hundreds of hundreds more. To need a term such as "classic prog rock" seems viable for this circumstance.

However, "progressive metal" didnt even exist until the late 80s/early nineties arguably...and since what was once progressive metal in those days, is now done quite commonly, theres nothing progressive about that style...its inheritantly become technical metal at that point. Not to mention there still arent that many progressive metal bands (in the true sense of the word) to this day. Granted there are still innovators in metal (opeth, arcturus, enslaved, etc) who continue to make progressive metal music, which is actually how it should be...bands being called progressive, when they progress and change the genre as we know it. But the point is, there isnt a need for a term "classic progressive metal" which seems to be what youre saying. i hope you see the difference.

As for the personal commentary...i dont speak as if everything i know is fact, however at this juncture id consider myself a progressive music expert, so forgive me for being aware and interested and opinionated on the subject...for i have a firm understand of the topic. And as for your personal attacks...it wasnt once....it was twice including telling me i need "people" skills. I dont need people skills on the internet, i have plenty in person....nor do i need to dignify you with kindness or such "skills" when you feel the need to attack me personally when youve realized you dont really know what youre talking about.

and as a side note...stating theres "progressive rock" and "prog rock" as two different things, certainly embeds your ignorance on the topic in cement. its people like you who have made the great divide in those two terms in the first place.