In Flames New Album being released in Q2 of 2014 thread

[eochaid]

I don't look down on anything (okay, LS is shit), I'm just saying the newer songs work better live and they already have a sick competition between themselves to begin with.

You know that this is your opinion, so you should make it clear. Something like: For me... before "the newer songs..." should work.

And don't forget, partially why IF made this decision because they spent hundreds of shows watching you and you and you on their shows, and they could see the different vibe from the crowd when they played Ordinary Story and when they did My Sweet Shadow. Now to top that, right now MSS is struggling to get love, but we are arguing whether Ordinary Story should be played or not. I dunno, different strokes I guess.

If this were true, they should be playing only their faster songs, as crowd never goes as mad as when listening to Trigger or Take This Life.

But, you know, there's something wrong when a band says that they do not care about the fan reaction when they write the music and then stating that they don't play some songs because the lack of reaction fron the fans. You know, one statement contradicts the other. Try to think why.

What does it have to do with songs being performed live? I love a lot of (instrumental) OSTs, but I don't want to listen to any of them live.

The very best thing of pre-2000 IF are the solos and the acoustic parts/songs. The only exception is the Stand Ablaze EP, I can enjoy that singer's growls. Someone should've stopped Anders to growl after Skyworld, but luckily from Whoracle onwards it's not as annoying, or even enjoyable on some songs.

Anyway, vocals are important to me, purely instrumental tracks can't hold my attention for too long. I want to get behind the song; I was never amazed by 2-3 minutes long solos from rock bands live, but I can very much appreciate instrumental tracks or parts.

That's why I'm saying that long time metal fans have a different point of view when aproaching music. We don't care that much for vocals, as they're part of the music. And, again, you should say: "for me" before "The very best thing of pre-2000 IF are the solos and the acoustic parts/songs" because that's your opinion. But I don't know if there would be many guitar players agreeing with you. I don't even think there's someone on this forum agreeing with you.

Edit: but now that I think about it, the important thing is to have melody at least if I don't understand what you'r singing. I like Cradle Of Filth for example, and I can enjoy Dani Filth screaming the shit out of himself without me understanding much more than Anders' on TJR for example.

Screaming and Dani Filth on the same sentence. You've never seen the guy live, do you?

 

[DE4life]

Cradle of Filth suck a massive, massive dick. Dani has told me before he can't believe the stuff they play is so popular (he's from the same area as me, so I see him in clubs every so often).

 

[PlainVanilla]

This is the best quality (remastered) audio live of Crawl Through Knives I know:
http://speedy.sh/VRc6W/In-Flames-Crawl-Through-Knives-Live-Gothenburg-2006.mp3

It's from their show in Gothenburg in 2006 which had quite an amazing setlist:
01 - Your Bedtime Story is Scaring Everyone
02 - Pinball Map
03 - Leeches
04 - System
05 - Trigger
06 - Insipid 2000
07 - Behind Space
08 - Colony
09 - Black & White
10 - Crawl Through Knives
11 - Take This Life
12 - Come Clarity
13 - Cloud Connected
14 - Bullet Ride
15 - Drifter
16 - Moonshield
17 - Episode 666
18 - Only For The Weak
19 - Vacuum
20 - The Quiet Place
21 - Touch of Red
22 - My Sweet Shadow

 

[krofius]

I can't believe they would play Colony when only 2 bitter purists in the back with Colony sweatshirts on would want to hear it. Not like literally 95% of IF fanbase know and love that song and probably 80+% of In Flames fans would like to hear 30% of a live show with the songs from my list of hits.

What? 95% of IF's fanbase knows the song Colony? That's not even close to true and you know it. Especially newer fans that has come the last 4-5 years, I'm pretty sure at least half of them only listen to the new stuff, and I'm not even including whole R2R. Sure most people probably knows OFTW as well, and maybe Pinball Map.

But if we take IF fans of all sorts, people who only like the old, people who only like the new and people who like it all and combine them, I'm pretty sure not over 75% people even know the album Colony and it's songs on it, including the title track. You know not that many people dig into a new band they founds discography, especially when it's IF as well. Imagine they just heard Where the Dead Ships Dwell (great song) and they really like it and they go and check IF's wikipedia. There they see Lunar Strain and they go to youtube and type in Lunar Strain, you think there's a big chance they'll like it? I do not. They'll probably think it sucks ass.

You need gateway bands and songs to get into extreme metal. I don't know of anyone who in the beginning didn't listen to metal at all and then heard a death metal song and wasn't distraught by the vocals thinking it's absolute dogshit. It takes time getting used to. Since you probably use YouTube you'll see in comments section so many comments saying that the music is great but the vocals ruin the song.

 

[eochaid]

Especially newer fans that has come the last 4-5 years, I'm pretty sure at least half of them only listen to the new stuff, and I'm not even including whole R2R. Sure most people probably knows OFTW as well, and maybe Pinball Map.

And still they call themselves true fans and tell the rest to go back to the caves just for not liking SC.

Edit: also, I don't understand why someone who aproaches the band from SC or SOAPF would like CC if they don't like extreme metal. I know it's my own opinion, but I don't see CC as less extreme than Colony or Clayman.

 

[DE4life]

Imagine they just heard Where the Dead Ships Dwell (great song) and they really like it and they go and check IF's wikipedia. There they see Lunar Strain and they go to youtube and type in Lunar Strain, you think there's a big chance they'll like it? I do not. They'll probably think it sucks ass.

The sad thing is the majority of In Flames nu fans probably are stupid enough to do exactly this, then never bother listening to anything else pre-Reroute

 

[eochaid]

The sad thing is the majority of In Flames nu fans probably are stupid enough to do exactly this, then never bother listening to anything else pre-Reroute

That should change if the band plays more pre reroute songs live.

 

[DE4life]

Depends if they all have the same music taste as Jester Slave

 

[eochaid]

They're real fans so, of course they will still go to their shows and enjoy the albums.

 

[Jester Slave]

But, you know, there's something wrong when a band says that they do not care about the fan reaction when they write the music and then stating that they don't play some songs because the lack of reaction fron the fans. You know, one statement contradicts the other. Try to think why.

Well, aren't you making songs you think are awesome, then play it live to your fans? Even if you make 100 awesome tracks, your set list is limited, so you have to make a selection. Let's start with what can you perform at all? 20 years of discography, some songs are bound to be unperformable, either for vocal reasons or because it sounds shit compared to the studio version - or after 20 years you facepalm that you ever gave your name for a few. Then yes, you have to take into account what the crowd like because you are playing for THEM. Not only that, but you have to consider first-timers as well. Sure, you might be bored with Take This Life or Cloud Connected, but you have no choice but play these for newcomers. This is 10 times more true for festivals, where chances are, people might only know your most famous hits from the new millenia, so you either get yourself booed by doing a 35/65 setlist, or please them with the hits. You can call this a sell-out, but that's what bands do at festivals*, and that's what me and you should do in their place as well, if you don't want to end up in a garage as our studio again.

I think the record album for fans vs play live for the fans have been discussed before. If some bands have no original ideas for what to do and just ask fans what they want to hear and make that, good for them.

As for CoF, I can't say much, I dig their work; not sure what they do so well but it works. And no, I did not hear Dani live, I was talking about their studio work, and he definetly screams there. A lot. It's actually 70% of what he is doing, so yeah. On Thornography he sings though; people must've flipped out when it was released.

* Edit: WOW, SORRY, I FORGOT ABOUT MY ASTERIX! Yeah, I just wanted to add a funny story where NIN got angry (because Trent is a whuss) for the festival organizers so they deliberately did some fucking retarded setlist with their slowest tracks and refused to play the higher tempo songs. Funnily enough, the crowd enjoyed it, haha.

And since I'm already editing, I also forgot to say that in song selection you have to consider which tracks do you feel are still relevant. IF has a lot of songs criticizing society, so most of them stood relevant, but for example the songs about stars and what not are surely not what makes Anders think "yes, I definetly have to sing this!". But I don't think a song like that was mentioned anyway, just wanted to add this as well.

 

[Jester Slave]

They're real fans so, of course they will still go to their shows and enjoy the albums.

Oh wait, we are back to the new fans vs old fans stuff. How original. Meanwhile IF will most play at another sold-out venue, where at leats half of the peeps there will wonder what the fuck are they playing when Resin is on.

People were quite nice at the venue here, so I suppose old, real, original, true fans were not there. Man, you would cry to see all those teenagers and young adults there!

 

[Jester Slave]

What? 95% of IF's fanbase knows the song Colony? That's not even close to true and you know it. Especially newer fans that has come the last 4-5 years, I'm pretty sure at least half of them only listen to the new stuff, and I'm not even including whole R2R. Sure most people probably knows OFTW as well, and maybe Pinball Map.

But if we take IF fans of all sorts, people who only like the old, people who only like the new and people who like it all and combine them, I'm pretty sure not over 75% people even know the album Colony and it's songs on it, including the title track. You know not that many people dig into a new band they founds discography, especially when it's IF as well. Imagine they just heard Where the Dead Ships Dwell (great song) and they really like it and they go and check IF's wikipedia. There they see Lunar Strain and they go to youtube and type in Lunar Strain, you think there's a big chance they'll like it? I do not. They'll probably think it sucks ass.

You need gateway bands and songs to get into extreme metal. I don't know of anyone who in the beginning didn't listen to metal at all and then heard a death metal song and wasn't distraught by the vocals thinking it's absolute dogshit. It takes time getting used to. Since you probably use YouTube you'll see in comments section so many comments saying that the music is great but the vocals ruin the song.

Yeeeeeep, that's how it works. Amazing how the others would expect someone who just listened to a newer IF record would surely enjoy some older material. I can see DE4life and eochaid trying to convicne them:

- Hey, you think that's the good stuff? Nah, listen to this kiddo, IF straight from the nineties. Amazing, isn't it?
- Ummm... is it really IF?
- Yeah, it is! They were this fucking awesome before.
- I wouldn't call it awesome. I mean, what's with Anders? I can't understand anything.
- That's 10/10 beautiful growls right there kid, watch your fucking mouth.
- All riiight. Where's the chorus btw?
- It's been played two times already.
- Oh... okay. Cool.
- Not cool, 10/10, best shit ever.
- Uhum. Where are the electronics though? I love Leeches, such a heavy electronic opener for a metal song.
- Wha... well, there are some... occasionally. But it's not about that, listen to that guitar play, listen to it, embrace it. 10/10 gothenburg sound. Can you feel Gothenburg flowing through your veins? CAN YOU?!
- No, but my head hurts, could you stop the song, please?
- Are you fucking retarded, mentally ill or both? You want me stop the Music? This is music, not the new shit you are listening to.
- I feel uncomfortable, I think I'll leave.
- Yeah, run away you pussy. I bet when you get home you will listen to take this life, won't you? Gay ass song from a gay ass band.
- Bye...
- You are not true kiddo, you are not. And no, you are not allowed to come tomorrow for our annual "12 reasons The Jest Race is superior than [insert newest album here]" meeting. Only true fans are allowed. Fuck the new generation man, I bet they don't even know the lyrics for Starforsaken backwards. Just sad.

The elitist bullshit coming from you guys never ceases to amuse me.

 

[DE4life]

The irony of your posts never ceases to amuse me

 

[DE4life]

Dem pre-recorded backing vocals

 

[eochaid]

Then yes, you have to take into account what the crowd like because you are playing for THEM. Not only that, but you have to consider first-timers as well.

Still not answering whats an evident contradiction. Or they do care about what fans want or they don't care.

If they do care, then they will do a show having in mind peoples tastes and, following the reasoning, they will do an album having in mind those same tastes.

If just the oposite, they will do an album not caring for what people will think about and they will choose for their shows whatever they want to play, not what people wants them to play.

Try to argue against with your own reasonings.

As for CoF, I can't say much, I dig their work; not sure what they do so well but it works. And no, I did not hear Dani live, I was talking about their studio work, and he definetly screams there. A lot. It's actually 70% of what he is doing, so yeah. On Thornography he sings though; people must've flipped out when it was released.

What Dani Filth does I wouldn't call scream, it's rather a falsetto arranged at studio to sound far better than it really does.

 

[eochaid]

Oh wait, we are back to the new fans vs old fans stuff. How original. Meanwhile IF will most play at another sold-out venue, where at leats half of the peeps there will wonder what the fuck are they playing when Resin is on.

First, you're asuming people didn't know what Resin is just because yourself didn't know.

Second, "real" fans should know what Resin is, as I know what Monsters In the Ballroom is though I personally consider it shit.

 

[eochaid]

- Hey, you think that's the good stuff? Nah, listen to this kiddo, IF straight from the nineties. Amazing, isn't it?
- Ummm... is it really IF?
- Yeah, it is! They were this fucking awesome before.
- I wouldn't call it awesome. I mean, what's with Anders? I can't understand anything.
- That's 10/10 beautiful growls right there kid, watch your fucking mouth.
- All riiight. Where's the chorus btw?
- It's been played two times already.
- Oh... okay. Cool.
- Not cool, 10/10, best shit ever.
- Uhum. Where are the electronics though? I love Leeches, such a heavy electronic opener for a metal song.
- Wha... well, there are some... occasionally. But it's not about that, listen to that guitar play, listen to it, embrace it. 10/10 gothenburg sound. Can you feel Gothenburg flowing through your veins? CAN YOU?!
- No, but my head hurts, could you stop the song, please?
- Are you fucking retarded, mentally ill or both? You want me stop the Music? This is music, not the new shit you are listening to.
- I feel uncomfortable, I think I'll leave.
- Yeah, run away you pussy. I bet when you get home you will listen to take this life, won't you? Gay ass song from a gay ass band.
- Bye...
- You are not true kiddo, you are not. And no, you are not allowed to come tomorrow for our annual "12 reasons The Jest Race is superior than [insert newest album here]" meeting. Only true fans are allowed. Fuck the new generation man, I bet they don't even know the lyrics for Starforsaken backwards. Just sad.

The elitist bullshit coming from you guys never ceases to amuse me.

Again you're rating music just by the singer lines.

First question: wouldn't you feel more comfortable listening to U2 or Beyoncé?

Second Question: tell me whats so different in Anders vocal melodies between Take This Life and any song from TJR to Clayman.

Third. This is not a question. If you take the music pulling out the vocals, you have than, of course, almost everything they do prior to R2R is better than SC. Going further, just talking about the music, SC is the worst album they've ever done.

Fourth. Of course, if everything you say you're gonna deal with like they're true facts, then I will do the same when talking to you.

Edit: talking about elitism, do you recognise this?

As amusing as it was to keep calling each other stupid for not liking the music we do, it got pretty boring, and by the time you pass 12, you start to open up your mind a little bit. Not everyone, of course, just visit IF facebook page and you can learn why you should not drink and smoke during pregnancy. Today, I can pretty much separate the music I'm listening to and rate it on its' own category. Like, Lady Gaga's Artpop is much better than her previous album. I know what you think now, The Fame was even better, but I beg to differ, it was only better if you consider it one with the EP after it. Haha. My favourite band (well, not really a band) is Nine Inch Nails, who did not release the same album twice ever, on the contrary, they are pretty different, and the changes did not come naturally at all. You waited for 5 years between albums just to hear something entirely different. It spawned some controvery of course, but we are kinda elitist, so we think that because we like NIN we are superior to other music listeners, hehe. Whether it's true or not, it certainly had the benefit to be much more acceptible towards the records, and people gave them time to sink and to appreciate the value. So, the NIN community digested the changes much easier, Trent Reznor is a very characteristic guy, and he said many times that if you don't like his music then fine, you can always go and fuck yourself instead of bitching. There are cavemen in the NIN facebook as well, but it's the same with almost every artist that has been around for more than 10 years. Probably Linkin Park is the best example. They have shitton of fans and they can fill any arenas, but if you would only inform from their facebook, you would think they already went bankrupt because no one bought any of their albums since Meteora. Yeah, right!

 

[Jester Slave]

Well I heard the song, but I did not know it by name.

Still not answering whats an evident contradiction. Or they do care about what fans want or they don't care.

If they do care, then they will do a show having in mind peoples tastes and, following the reasoning, they will do an album having in mind those same tastes.

If just the oposite, they will do an album not caring for what people will think about and they will choose for their shows whatever they want to play, not what people wants them to play.

Try to argue against with your own reasonings..

You so much want to force it into a contradictory state, but no, it's not a choice. You can make an album YOU think is cool, then select songs according to how well they sound live and how well they resonate with the crowd.

Making an album is creating original content, while playing a live show is sharing some of those original contents. If you let others tell you how to make an album, it's not so much an original content anymore, but if you let yourself to be affected by others which of your songs will you play live, those will still say original ones. It's totally different.

But yes, I guess you proved that their "can't perform live" excuse is not true, so there's that to be mad of.

 

[DE4life]

Btw, since people mentioned Nevermore earlier, one of my fav NM songs...

 

[eochaid]

Well I heard the song, but I did not know it by name.

You so much want to force it into a contradictory state, but no, it's not a choice. You can make an album YOU think is cool, then select songs according to how well they sound live and how well they resonate with the crowd.

Making an album is creating original content, while playing a live show is sharing some of those original contents. If you let others tell you how to make an album, it's not so much an original content anymore, but if you let yourself to be affected by others which of your songs will you play live, those will still say original ones. It's totally different.

But yes, I guess you proved that their "can't perform live" excuse is not true, so there's that to be mad of.

Sorry but, speaking from a logical point of view, you're still wrong. Or other people opinions affects you or they don't. It's so easy to understand. Unless you don't want to.