Lets make a twist to your second sentence. As a band you have to create the songs that people want to hear live.
In Flames New Album being released in Q2 of 2014 thread
- Thread starter krofius
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Lets make a twist to your second sentence. As a band you have to create the songs that people want to hear live.
Jester Slave
Narcissist
Let's separate them first.
1. New album comes out, but you are saying no one likes it. Now, first of all, no one heard any of those songs, so they can't know if they would enjoy it or not. Secondly, you are talking about a very harsh change. Clayman-->R2R/STYE pretty much made some genre "improvement" (or to others, stepback), let's call it mainstream MDM. It's like climbing up two steps on a ladder (not talking about quality, but distance). It's strange to take two steps at once, and people who were used to take one at a time might got alienated from it, but it wasn't THAT hard to adjust and accept. Now, if they would make an extreme death metal record, that would be am even meaner and hevaier abum than Lunar Strain. It would've been hard to adjust to it after Colony or Whoracle, let alone from SOAPF or ASOP, it's like 10 steps at once. People would fall off from the ladder like lemmings. Still, you have to play a lot of stuff from that album and not because Sony is pushing your ass, but because apparently that is the way you want to go now, those are the songs you think are the best right now. This makes another two points:
a.) So I just said they should play what they like, even if fans might not like it which might seem contradictory with my previous posts. BUT, I never said they have to do a greatest hits show where fans can vote for the whole setlist and you bow down. No, you have to
- play a few hits at every show, because that's what first timers are waiting for the most, unless you specifically announce before the tour that the next few shows will be for the hardcore fans only, so very few hits.
- play songs that work well live. If the attendants are just idngling around, waiting for the next song, you fucked up somewhere. Even if you promote your new hardcore death metal album, you should play the songs which the fans would like the most in your opinion.
- Do not play songs you don't like anymore or can't stand behind it. Yes, if you think performing Only For The Weak would be fake, because now you hate that song and totally disagree with its' message, then don't play it. You are there to please the fans with stuff YOU like as well.
b.) You have to promote your newest record either way. If you think it's shit and not worth promoting, then why did you make it in the first place? Yeah, you put yourself in a veeeery tough position with making a hardcore death metal record, but that was your decision, you have to follow through it. But SC is far from this extreme example, no one will puke the floor when they hear IPV, Paralyzed or WEWO. It will be played for X times, then for the next tour, when they don't have to promote and test it live, they can decide whether they think it worked well, or not. If people hated them all then they should not play them, but that just won't be true. Hell, if you would make a record where you can'T make at least ONE song that could hold its' ground live it's probably time to stop releasing albums altogether and just tour the older ones.
2. "they do the músic they want without caring for fan reaction. Second, they do play the songs people want, not the songs the would like to play." Though I touched on that, this is the most important point of this debate so let's just highlight it once again.
First of all, why should you care for others, still no one explained this. You believe you make awesome stuff and you believe your fans are backing you up because you make awesome stuff. If you don't have confidence in your abilities to produce good music, then sure, ask your fans, though it would be quite the disappointment, especially after 20+ years of making music. Yeah, maybe you release SC and fans are like "meh, okay", then what? It's not like you just announced your next 3 albums will sound the same like this and it's not like there weren't bitching for the last 12 years anyway. I think after you are hearing it for the millionth time that "omg, this is the end, so fucking bad" you realize: you could not even listen to the fans, even if you really wanted to.
I like Anders' response from the interview I linked, you really can't do much from fan feedback, unless it's greatly one-sided. And no, not even the SC hate is one sided, so what would you expect them to do for the next record if they would base it on fan-wishes? Make it like Lunar Strain! No, TJR 2 please! No, R2R was the best! Bullshit, Siren Charm is so good! Liar, CC is the absolute best!
There you go, please them! Not only you would give up your artistic integrity by just trying to do so, you are bound to fail. Pleasing fans live howewer, oh, so much easier. Play Paralyzed. Did they go fucking crazy? Yes. Awesome. Play Monsters In The Ballroom. Did they go fucking crazy. Noooooooooooooot really. Okay, let's play it some more, you can't judge by only 2-3 venues, but if it won't work out on the long run you will please them by ejecting it.
Everything being said, they are not doing a good job imo either. If you want to play only one song from pre-2000, don't fucking play Resin. Songs like Resin are cool if you play 3 or 4 pre 2000 songs, so even if there would be better songs even from the older ones, it's really cool to see such songs surface once in a while.
I'm pretty sure he wouldn't give such a thing away if it means what you think it means. You imply he just rushes through with what he does, get it over asap then tour that shit, but looking at the context, he probably meant he's not the type of guy who works on new stuff 0-24, rather he sets to his mind to it when the time comes.
I mean, if I was interviewed, I wouldn'T just admit I'm fake and don'T give a crap about my music, even if it was true.
Doesn't sound like he put much effort into SC to be fair. Most of the melodies are based on vocals - probably why Anders was so burned out afterwards, seems like the onus was on him to do what the guitars used to do on previous albums.
1. No. You're wrong. First, before deciding if you like the album you've gotta listen to it. Second, they like the album.
2.Of course I'm talking about harsh change. I'm doing a model on wich is needed a change to provoke some reactions. And, do you think changes only comes in direction suitable to your likings?
Man, I'm not talking about reallity, think of this as a philosophy examination.
No, you said that they always play what the fans want to listen at. That's the main point on this part of the reasoning. And you're moving away form it.
You're digressing again and moving away from the initial proposition. They made a record they like and the fans not. I'm not talking about SC. I'm trying to explain something so simple that your mind seems not to understand. (By now you have a 0 in the exam for answering what I'm not asking).
"why should you care for others". You're near, friend. If you don't care for others, you don't care when making music and when making the setlist, if you care, you do when making music and doing the setlist. There's no midpoint between caring and not caring.
You can say whatever you want, but being lazy has just one meaning. I'm not trying to explain his words, yet you do to make them adjust to your own thoughts. He said he is lazy so I say he's lazy. I don't know how this can imply nothing else than being lazy.
This was a very simple logic exercise and you couldn't do it well. As your teacher I'm very dissapointed. You did not studied and did not answer to the question. Next time try harder.
only4theweak187
Member
- Mar 19, 2014
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Did.. Did you just call Dead Eternity a filler track?
Fav song off Jester Race next to Moonshield.
You know what I mean dik hed
PlainVanilla
Dickhead Jester
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Jester Slave
Narcissist
You keep condescending to me when you are getting 0s on the exams as well. Ie. just because I bring up SC does not mean I did not understand what you meant, but it's pointless to talk with you if all you can do is maintain this attitude. It's somewhat funny, I give you that.
As for the lazy stuff, you were the one who took it to the next level. You said the reason he chose Anders is because he's lazy, but first of all, everything is just assumptions, like whether he had to chose at all. Maybe he was with Anders from the start, maybe there wasn't a huge Anders vs Jesper battle going on for years. No one is saying anything specific. Anders says it was fucking shitty to work with jesper towards the end and Jesper said it wasn't the alcohol (though he did miss out on a tour, but I suppose that's no biggie then), he just did not like the new music. We could make conspiracy theories but kinda pointless, I don't think any of these guys needs to be defended or villainize about Jesper's depature.
Maybe this is why the forum usually quietly disbands shortly after album release... things get too crazy otherwise
Anyway I was listening to the Sweden Rock 2005 bootleg earlier, wtf is wrong with Andurz voice? He sounds awful. I burst out laughing at his "I LIKE YOU BETTER DEAD" ... sounded like an utter spaz
it's weird because his voice around that period was usually pretty strong. Not here though. Maybe Krofius will know the reason why...At least I have an atitude and I can (or try to) prove what I say, no something like "bad people hates IF and are mocking me", nor something like "I'm the only and true representation of IF fans will, so everything I say you shall take as law". I won't accept you as the bearer of the law unless you come with the tables writen by Anders own hands.
As for the lazy stuff, it's obvious that you just don't get irony.
You now, I tried to reason but you just come with vague arguments and constant change of atitude. This way it's imposible. So believe what you want and go on in your happy rainbow world (but beware of the wolfs).
One question I never was concerned before. Is it normal for them to do the same setlist after so many concerts (well, no so many but I think you understand)? I mean, they play 7 out of 11 tracks from SC. If it's a test about how they sound live, wouldn't it be normal to start introducing the songs they haven't played until now? Unless, as someone (I don't remember who) suggested they're warming up for a dvd shoot. But, even so, I feel a little weird to put a song like Resin into a live dvd when they have old songs that are far better.
PlainVanilla
Dickhead Jester
The Used & Abused DVD already features Colony, Moonshield, Behind Space, Artifacts of the Black Rain, Pinball Map, etc...
EDIT : And I love Resin so it's fine to me.
Jester Slave
Narcissist
I explained it two times what's the difference between recording an album and playing a live show. The only response was you trying to be witty and dismissing it as a possibility. Not much to argue about if we can't agree on the very basis of the arguement. You say you either make songs and live song selections for the fans, or only for yourself, while I say it's more than possible to listen to your own vision when making an original material then choose songs according to your and your fans' (supposed) preferences.
Colony is on 2/2 live material so far for example. But the reason I'm unsure about the dvd shooting because CC (a record that has no official live coverage either) is very underplayed. One would expect more than Take This Life to be recorded. It's not even that they did not have time to practice. There will be a few days breaka fter one show, if they return with the exact same setlist after that I'll be surprised.
Sure. But that DVD was an exception, as is a two parts concert and the first is a kind of greatest hists from the past (but why the hell I'm saying what everybody nows?). But, as I like Resin two, feels a little strange if that's the son chosen among the first 4 records to be in a live dvd.
You do nothing but repeating the same mantra over and over again. I'm tired of this conversation.
The main problem is that, if they do a greatest hits dvd, they should be doing, apart from TTL, the Come Clarity song, which means another ballad. So I don't think they'll be ading another song from that album. Also, when you see peoples comments about what songs to play live, there is a lot of people who asks for Crawl Through Knives, but, the problem is that I don't think that Anders can sing this song live as his voice is now.
Colony is the worst song on the record, in my opinion. I think the best are Zombie Inc, Embody the Invisible and Coerced Coexistence.
Maybe this is why the forum usually quietly disbands shortly after album release... things get too crazy otherwise
It got too crazy really fast and I had no time to read through it all.
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