In Flames New Album being released in Q2 of 2014 thread
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only4theweak187
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Yeah I've seen them talk about this. Anders could still just scream the way he does now and the songs could still be played great. They still are even with Niclas a high-level band to see play live instrumentally wise.
Long post:
What do we think is the reason now?
1. Too much time has passed, they feel a new generation of younger fans (Although with the internet, youtube etc. etc.) wouldn't know the old classics?
2. They truly think they can't play songs from Clayman or Colony live anymore? Which we know is false.
3. Anders feels he can't do them justice since the way they were sung on the record is too hard on the voice? They could easily just continue playing them live and he could sing using the current scream technique he's doing now. No one would have a problem with that except ignorant-elitist-non-realistic idiots.
4. Feeling like with Jesper gone they shouldn't play most of that material? (Yet they're playing Resin and some random classics every now and then as of now so that's probably not correct.)
Again, me personally... I'm not talking about random obscure requests of songs for them to play live from say Jester Race or Whoracle as yes most of them have many guitar layers and vocal layers to them which would be weird to replicate live.
I'm talking simple tracks that they played live for years such as:
Moonshield
Jotun
Gyroscope
Episode 666
Embody the Invisible (Obviously they should continue to do so)
Behind Space
Colony
Zombie Inc (Iffy but still doable as it has fast thrashy verses and big chorus that could be used for moshing then a great clap-along for the solo to enjoy)
Bullet Ride
Pinball Map
Square Nothing (Great slow-buildup to a powerful kick-in & energetic riffs throughout)
Clayman
Alright so obviously Clayman had Satellites and Astronauts or Swim that they've played in the past and are amazing songs live as well. But I think you guys get what I'm saying. There are plenty of playable songs live that span back really far but aren't impossible to play on stage.
So there is a reason why they're choosing not to. It is either they're convinced people wouldn't want/know to hear them played or they just want to move away into their new style from 2008 and on...
Side thought - I'm surprised they haven't played Black and White or Transparent as those songs sound similar in structure, guitar-play and vocal style to Siren Charms(imo).
Yes I didn't mention Soundtrack or Come Clarity but not playing the older-older classics is a bigger problem to be addressed first imo
It is also not possible that the band just don't like those songs much anymore, and thus would rather not play them? They were much younger when they wrote TJR/Whoracle, especially... so perhaps they see that music as being immature.
Obviously it's nonsense as, if anything, their current music is far less mature than the stuff they wrote 15/20 years ago, but Anders in particularly always seems to have some disdain for the older music. He seems to think what they're producing now is far superior
Obviously it's nonsense as, if anything, their current music is far less mature than the stuff they wrote 15/20 years ago, but Anders in particularly always seems to have some disdain for the older music. He seems to think what they're producing now is far superior
Jester Slave
Narcissist
Basically only4theweak said: "People are vocal about something = they are right."
It's basic psychology that the comments you will read at facebook, or youtube, or the people who march to the streets will be those who are unsatisfied, while the ones who are enjoying what they are getting, are conent, and do not feel the urge to post "GOOD SHIT BOYS, KEEP ROCKING" to every single facebook message or video, or government decision.
Those replies are nothing but a storm in a little glass. If you don't know IF, you might think "wow, people really hate this band!", but the truth is, so much more people are content with them (yes, I'm not agreeing with their song selection either, but I'm far from freaking out and losing my shit, and feeling the need to cry about it everywhere), than those who are still going to sleep with TJR as their pillow.
1. They might know it, but not necessarily like it. You can't argue that you have to have different taste to like both version of In Flames. I can sit down and listen to an old IF song, imagining I'm some kind of beast guitar player and getting the groove of growls, then switch to some more streamlined IF song and scream my lungs out and wanting to crawl back to their live show to hear them again. But the new fans are mainly lured in by the new material. If you show me one guy who got hooked in because he heard Moonshield I can show you 10 who got hooked in because they heard Take This Life, and you know it's true. Take This Life is an absolutely safe bet to play live, Moonshield is not so much. 10 Take This Life-material in a live event is an absolute killer for sure, fans won't be bored 10 Moonshield is risky. And don't come up with TCP, that is one song. If you enjoy it ,good for you, if you don't, you can survive it.
2. Just because they already played it does not mean they are satisfied with them. I agree that the "we can't play that live" excuse is bullshit (most of the time), but you people are so conveniently deciding whether they should be satisfied with their performance or not. What if they hate how most of the old songs sound COMPARED TO the new ones?
3. Now, you say that. Then Anders would perform ~4 old growling tracks with the quality of his screams today and you could watch this board burn to ashes.
His screams during that yahoo-broadcasted American show was veeeery good (in expense of his cleans), but if you listen to some European shows, he could not even perform easier growls like on OFTW. He would get tons of shit for failing a song which is 100% growl/scream, not to mention he himself might not be satisfied with it.4. That's a huge no, and just leave it to the conspiracy-theorist.
5. I think what you did not touch is that how huge is their discography. I'm fairly convinced the most we could expect from them is 4 (yes, four) songs from TJR-Colony era (minus OFTW). Anything more is far-fetched, simply because their newer songs are so much more live-friendly AND known. Even just one of these reasons could be enough to justify their omnipresence. Especially in live settings where they can only play 10 songs at best.
And your side thought is what I actually wanted to say. Yes, you can argue with everything I've said so far, but no one but you brought up the fact that there are shitton of great newer songs they never played, or rarely ever. Minus? B&W? Dawn Of A New Day? Free Fall? Versus Terminus? Reflect The Storm? Vacuum? I'd really like to hear Filtered Truth and Siren Charms as well. Where is Leeches btw? Come Clarity? What happened to Alias? My Sweet Shadow 0 plays during this tour, really? Hate Like You Better Dead all you want, I'm convinced it'd be a great live song. Why is TCP is a staple while Evil In A Closet was barely played at all? Do people who are new to IF even know there's an IF song called Dial 595-Escape? And if they do, do they know it's actually a pretty good song? You people are talking about TJR-Whoracle songs, when Pinball Map or Bullet Ride would sound infinitely better live than the older songs.
Bottom line, you (not YOU in particular) make it sound soooo easy. "Play this, and that and that and that, easy as that, everyone is happy!" - No! Just no.
No one argues they should play more oldies, and I think no one argues that some kind of a retro-tour would be really cool, but once we are moving into selecting what few songs they should pick to play live and what songs should be benched for it, we'll hardly reach an agreement. I mean sure, the few of you who value TJR-Colony era 11/10 would easily agree, but what if I rather see Minus and Vacuum introduced to the setlist, than Gyroscope and Ordinary Story returning?
This. It also makes a lot of sense from their point of view.It is also not possible that the band just don't like those songs much anymore, and thus would rather not play them? They were much younger when they wrote TJR/Whoracle, especially... so perhaps they see that music as being immature.
Obviously it's nonsense as, if anything, their current music is far less mature than the stuff they wrote 15/20 years ago, but Anders in particularly always seems to have some disdain for the older music. He seems to think what they're producing now is far superior
Jester Slave
Narcissist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RG-9X-aSY4 - If you want to waste 12 minutes from your life, want to feel awkward or just want to stare at boobs, there you go. I love though how he doesn't know what pálinka is. Pretty sure it knocked him the fuck out that night
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qlp1i2VDTL0 : Miles better interview, though the interviewer girl seems to be soaking wet; holy shit does she want to suck off Daniel badly. Oh well, at least she seems to like the band. Two important things I learned from the interview: 1. Anders likes konyak.... wow, so lame. 2. One of his idol is.... TRENT REZNOR, SUCK A DICK EVERYONE!!! That was actually surprising - and heartwarming -, but all the more reason why he doesn't give a fuck about "bring back old IF" and not being afraid to try new things.
Also, 2,5 years of touring? There, people, get your hopes up for some varied setlists!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qlp1i2VDTL0 : Miles better interview, though the interviewer girl seems to be soaking wet; holy shit does she want to suck off Daniel badly. Oh well, at least she seems to like the band. Two important things I learned from the interview: 1. Anders likes konyak.... wow, so lame. 2. One of his idol is.... TRENT REZNOR, SUCK A DICK EVERYONE!!! That was actually surprising - and heartwarming -, but all the more reason why he doesn't give a fuck about "bring back old IF" and not being afraid to try new things.
Also, 2,5 years of touring? There, people, get your hopes up for some varied setlists!
I don't think Anders can keep the new scream through many songs, since he has no technique. Also, I don't know if I'm right, but I think they must lower the tone from the older songs in order to adapt to Anders tone, lower than it was with the old screm.
It is also not possible that the band just don't like those songs much anymore, and thus would rather not play them? They were much younger when they wrote TJR/Whoracle, especially... so perhaps they see that music as being immature.
Obviously it's nonsense as, if anything, their current music is far less mature than the stuff they wrote 15/20 years ago, but Anders in particularly always seems to have some disdain for the older music. He seems to think what they're producing now is far superior
As I said before, Bjorn said that his favourite song to play is ETI, also I remember Daniel saying that his favourite songs to play live are the faster ones (though I don't think that he has much to say within the band, in fact, I believe that Anders is the only one with voice in the band now).
That's exactly the same you people say about others enjoyning or not old songs live.
Well, I see many of the lasts on their facebook page, and much more with the "haters will be hated". But, I also read those posts, and there is much people wanting to listen to the old stuff live, and many of them are not haters, is people who enjoy the most of their albums, acording to their words. But, as I'm not psycologyst I only talk about what I read, not about the motivations of the peole.
It's a good thing to know that much people and to know what they think, specially when it fits your side in a discussion.
Still don't know how that led you to talk about politics.
only4theweak187
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Basically only4theweak said: "People are vocal about something = they are right."
It's basic psychology that the comments you will read at facebook, or youtube, or the people who march to the streets will be those who are unsatisfied, while the ones who are enjoying what they are getting, are conent, and do not feel the urge to post "GOOD SHIT BOYS, KEEP ROCKING" to every single facebook message or video, or government decision.
Those replies are nothing but a storm in a little glass. If you don't know IF, you might think "wow, people really hate this band!", but the truth is, so much more people are content with them (yes, I'm not agreeing with their song selection either, but I'm far from freaking out and losing my shit, and feeling the need to cry about it everywhere), than those who are still going to sleep with TJR as their pillow.
1. They might know it, but not necessarily like it. You can't argue that you have to have different taste to like both version of In Flames. I can sit down and listen to an old IF song, imagining I'm some kind of beast guitar player and getting the groove of growls, then switch to some more streamlined IF song and scream my lungs out and wanting to crawl back to their live show to hear them again. But the new fans are mainly lured in by the new material. If you show me one guy who got hooked in because he heard Moonshield I can show you 10 who got hooked in because they heard Take This Life, and you know it's true. Take This Life is an absolutely safe bet to play live, Moonshield is not so much. 10 Take This Life-material in a live event is an absolute killer for sure, fans won't be bored 10 Moonshield is risky. And don't come up with TCP, that is one song. If you enjoy it ,good for you, if you don't, you can survive it.
2. Just because they already played it does not mean they are satisfied with them. I agree that the "we can't play that live" excuse is bullshit (most of the time), but you people are so conveniently deciding whether they should be satisfied with their performance or not. What if they hate how most of the old songs sound COMPARED TO the new ones?
3. Now, you say that. Then Anders would perform ~4 old growling tracks with the quality of his screams today and you could watch this board burn to ashes.
4. That's a huge no, and just leave it to the conspiracy-theorist.
5. I think what you did not touch is that how huge is their discography. I'm fairly convinced the most we could expect from them is 4 (yes, four) songs from TJR-Colony era (minus OFTW). Anything more is far-fetched, simply because their newer songs are so much more live-friendly AND known. Even just one of these reasons could be enough to justify their omnipresence. Especially in live settings where they can only play 10 songs at best.
And your side thought is what I actually wanted to say. Yes, you can argue with everything I've said so far, but no one but you brought up the fact that there are shitton of great newer songs they never played, or rarely ever. Minus? B&W? Dawn Of A New Day? Free Fall? Versus Terminus? Reflect The Storm? Vacuum? I'd really like to hear Filtered Truth and Siren Charms as well. Where is Leeches btw? Come Clarity? What happened to Alias? My Sweet Shadow 0 plays during this tour, really? Hate Like You Better Dead all you want, I'm convinced it'd be a great live song. Why is TCP is a staple while Evil In A Closet was barely played at all? Do people who are new to IF even know there's an IF song called Dial 595-Escape? And if they do, do they know it's actually a pretty good song? You people are talking about TJR-Whoracle songs, when Pinball Map or Bullet Ride would sound infinitely better live than the older songs.
Bottom line, you (not YOU in particular) make it sound soooo easy. "Play this, and that and that and that, easy as that, everyone is happy!" - No! Just no.
No one argues they should play more oldies, and I think no one argues that some kind of a retro-tour would be really cool, but once we are moving into selecting what few songs they should pick to play live and what songs should be benched for it, we'll hardly reach an agreement. I mean sure, the few of you who value TJR-Colony era 11/10 would easily agree, but what if I rather see Minus and Vacuum introduced to the setlist, than Gyroscope and Ordinary Story returning?
Long post alert. The last 10 or so lines of this post is basically my point.
If I said "People are vocal about this then they're right", then I'd be saying that both people who want only new shit live vs. people who want older stuff played as well as the new are both right somehow? Makes no sense. I was just saying in response to only seeing people hate on reasonable people who want a more broad setlist while still playing like half new stuff. It was interesting to read the comments after IF posted an older song when they don't really do that on their facebook often. I'm also not talking about just those with discontent, I was just stating an observation.
1. Obviously I forgot to mention the obvious until the end of my post, that they don't like it anymore. That's becoming more apparent as time goes on. Now, I would never say someone could get into IF in the last 10 years from "Moonshield" or any other song off Jester Race or Whoracle as it's been a long time, no music videos to find and it just probably wouldn't happen. Now, out of a 16-22 song show, it wouldn't be crazy to play Moonshield or something off Whoracle as most bands do play a song or two from the earliest releases. It's really not that weird and actually most In Flames fans besides people who are JUST getting into them would know the song. It's not that unrealistic. Metal shows aren't a mainstream gathering for say, radio-rock bands, for example. It's still a niche market where people will know a lot more about a band than other music genres. We get it, you can't fathom if people would appreciate Moonshield or any song from Whoracle but most In Flames FANS would... Don't know how that's arguable.
2. Yes I think we're all coming to this conclusion. As I said at the end of my post that it seems they just want to distance away from it. Nothing we can do to change it.
3. Well, the songs I listed which you should take a look over because you're still talking as if I'm saying he should sing straight melodeath songs they did like Graveland or Dead God in Me, which I'm not. The songs I listed are all songs they have played in the last 10 years and Anders screamed(not growled) them just fine. Moonshield, Artifacts of the Black Rain, Gyroscope, Episode 666 and anything from the album Colony he could scream today the way he does and they'd still be fine. He's been screaming his ass off in the choruses for In Plain View and Everything's Gone every night and doing OK. Not unrealistic. Again, I'm simply still talking about songs from the list which are songs they played for years and years and a lot of them were live staples for a LONG time up until SOAPF came out.
Here are 2 setlists from 2010 and one from 2009 that are interesting to look at:
http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/in-flames/2010/star-live-beijing-china-3bd768f8.html
http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/in-flames/2010/sticky-fingers-gothenburg-sweden-2bd41852.html
http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/in-flames/2009/prairieland-park-saskatoon-sk-canada-bd78d7a.html
^Now, being a realistic person as most of us IF fans are... These are reasonable and would be cool setlists to see as they spanned from the beginning to the new very interestingly. Now fast forward to now, they could still do something like these shows but with adding SOAPF and SC songs as well and to still be realistic, may have to subtract another 2-3 older songs to make room for the 2 newest releases. Still, things could still be a nice 60:40 ratio in favor of the new. (Even as far as a 70:30 ratio). But to play barely 5 songs from before 2006 is pretty shitty from a real IF fan's point of view who likes all or most of their shit which is the vast majority of IF's fans IMO.
5. We're almost agreeing. I can run with the idea that most wouldn't know Jester Race, Whoracle or anything from Colony other than the track "Colony" itself... But still most IF fans as well as the absolute die-hards know tracks from Clayman and from my experience over here I hear at shows people yelling out and word of mouth in line waiting to get in and reading on the USA Jesterhead facebook and IF's facebook profiles people from the states saying they'd like to hear more from Clayman itself. (Just an observation) Now remember I'm still talking about the few Clayman songs from the list I made, mind you. (Except Square Nothing which is a bit too much of a stretch to think they'd play again from Clayman)
Now, with the list I made I did basically touch the point of how big a catalogue they have. Which is why that list is only about 12 songs, give or take a couple I'm missing or shouldn't have put on it. You can see the songs on the list I made (Forgot Artifacts & shouldn't have had Square Nothing on there) as far as Jester Race - Clayman are concerned is just a list of the songs they played the most for the longest... According to setlist.fm IF stats.
Your last 2 paragraphs are just from a personal perspective. I was simply talking from a select group of songs that they played from the first 4 albums the most. I didn't touch Reroute, Soundtrack or Come Clarity as they have a lot of great songs but right now we're talking about the lack of the first 4 albums of their discography being displayed live besides 1-2 songs at the most if we're lucky.
Again, I only chose to talk about songs from Jester Race through Clayman which they did play for a very long time and that they could still do. But don't.
I'm basically saying this. (Talking 16-18 song headliner shows, not opening/supporting acts or 45min festival sets) Why not:
3-4 from Jester Race - Clayman
3-4 from Reroute - Come Clarity
8-10 A Sense of Purpose -Siren Charms
This is what most metal bands do that have a 10+ album discography. Especially those that have hits most fans/the diehards like to see live that span back all the way to the first few albums. Including In Flames.
Amorphis just for example: http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/amorphis/2014/pakkahuone-tampere-finland-63cdee43.html
They have a lot of hits from 2006 and on as well as just several from their first few albums that they know THEIR FANS want to hear. There's a "new" Amorphis as well as an "old" Amorphis. They know how to please their fans.
^Eerily similar to IN FLAMES situation.
Well, if they do hate the old stuff, and, by old I mean everything until clayman (included) and many songs from the albums until CC, then they should change thair name. Not like they would make the same amount of miney but, at least, they shoud be a more sincere band.
Jester Slave
Narcissist
I'll read your reply only4theweak, but right now it's 4:30am so sleep is in order. However, I was randomly browsing youtube and found a documentary about Rammstein's keyboardist, and he said something relevant to IF and the much debate this IF board has seen: >>>If you want to be successful, it will certainly never happen. As soon as you want success you start doing things you don't want to do, because what you want is success. It's just like making music for fans. As soon as you start thinking like that, you can already give up. If you really want to be a band that will reach many people, exist for a long time and produce good albums, eventually you have to become disciplined. It doesn't work otherwise. And it isn't the kind of thing where you say: "All right, from now on I'll be orderly.' It was more of a gradual process.>>>
It's not as easy as that.
They were boring as hell, though to be fair their settings were messed up. I felt the bass in my cells.
No matter who governs or where (exclude extreme dictatorships), people will always riot and rebel, so if a chunk of haters on their facebook page means people really want their old stuff back, then by that logic governments should change from day to day. Even if you had a government with 90% support rate, that remaining 10% will go to the streets. Does that mean the government is bad?
It's not as easy as that.
They were boring as hell, though to be fair their settings were messed up. I felt the bass in my cells.
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First, you don't know if they are haters, of course, for you newbies, everyone asking for an old song is a hater, so there is no point on discussin this bullshit. Second, it's the band's own fault for asking.
only4theweak187
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Wat.
You obviously didn't go and look at what I was talking about on their fb page. I should've posted a screenshot or something. There was great conversations going on after IF posted an older song of theirs about people talking about what's going on currently with them. I was talking about how many normal, reasonable people were commenting about why they feel there's too many new songs being played. There weren't haters except for the usual select-few that troll every chance they get to be negative.
Jester Slave
Narcissist
Another problem might be is that they did not seem to have staples from that era, aside from maybe Pinball Map. Sure, if we check setlist.fm we can see a lot of older songs being played a lot, but when they only had 3 or 4 albums out, it's not like they could play anything else. But nothing carved its' place into the IF setlists like OFTW, Take This Life, TQP or Deliver Us. These are songs which you can safely bet you will see in any given year at an IF show and every band (I know of) have songs like these. Yes, occasionally one of these songs skips a few shows or rarely an entire tour leg, but you know what I'm talking about. You will hear One Step Closer from LP, Wish from NIN, Surfacing from Slipknot, Du Reichst So Gut from Rammstein, Enter Sandman from Metallica, Angel Of Death from Slayer, and the list goes on.
These songs are a product of the band being very satisfied with the song AND the fans being crazy about them. IF has 0 songs like this from the TJR-Whoracle-Colony-era (+Behind Space), which is crazy and I'm unsure why is that. But if they did not feel any of those songs worthy of being treated like Cloud Connected with Jesper around, can't see it happening without him.
Okay, call them trolls? Spamming every news feed from IF with "BRING BACK OLD IF" is nothing but moronic, and just a vocal minority. Don't suppose they are like only4theweak, being reasonable, no, they just hate that IF doesn't sound like they did 2 million years ago, so they keep spamming, so one day they might release Whoracle part 2.
It means nothing, and it should mean nothing. Too bad these morons also ruin the perception of people who are not so extreme. But then again, it's how many protests end up. Go to the street to raise your voice---> a few people from the crowd goes vandal ---> news reports how vandals went rampage on the street ---> your opinion is mashed together with these actions ---> people don't take you seriously. Difference is, politics is a big game, and people do everything to make you look like a fool if you don't agree with them, while those "OMG NEW STUFF SO SUX, PLS PLAY LUNAR STRAIN TY" IF guys at facebook are shooting themselves on the foot willingly.
Jester Slave
Narcissist
Man, you cannot describe them without reading them or without knowing them. You call them trolls or haters because it fits your point of view and you cannot admit that there might be a lot of people out there who won't agree with you, so you come saying random numbers to discredit anything that doesn't match you own thoughts. You have no real numbers or arguments to support yours but you will never admit it.
only4theweak187
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I literally just checked their newest post on facebook....
Nah dude I was talking about this: Wasn't even a major statement I was making I just was making conversation that it was interesting to see people have that conversation instead of the usual flame war that's on all of their fb posts lately. I wasn't saying it meant anything or proved something
Slave is right when he's referring to the haters because there is a SHIT TON of them all over IF fb page. But you(echoaid) and I are talking about the people who aren't doing that but are expressing their distaste and opinions of the new album and the current setlists like sane people.
Jester Slave it's like you're lumping both haters and the more rational people commenting their negative opinions of the new material^ into one. There's a big difference between the 2
I actually agree with this except for Episode 666 and the track Colony itself. Moonshield is a maybe but I feel too far gone at this point since it was 1996 after all but still realistically most IF fans who go to see them would probably know it.
only4theweak187
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1. Nah man the list of songs I made that they played for a LONG time were played up until even like 2009-2010. Not just when they only had 4 albums out.
2. Fair point, but with just looking at text on a screen and not a physical group of people that can escalate in one area... We can differentiate easily the difference between the radicals and the rational ones
Maybe, but, talking about haters is the easy way to defend the new album. They try to argue that is a fight between old IF and new IF, conveniently forgetting that many of the people who complains about SC is people that like the previous albums, be it new IF or old IF. This way, they reduce the SC matter to an absurd fight that suits their point of view.
Yes, there is many people claiming to go back to TJR, this is stupid, but I don't think there are as many as the ones who felt disapointed with and only with SC, be it with the direction they're taking or with the (low) quiallity of the album.
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