Best parts of SC: guest keyboard player and guest female singer.
+1
Not one bad song.
But it would be nice for them to find some new elements for their music. And lay of those weak cleans.
In Flames New Album being released in Q2 of 2014 thread
- Thread starter krofius
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Best parts of SC: guest keyboard player and guest female singer.
+1
Not one bad song.
But it would be nice for them to find some new elements for their music. And lay of those weak cleans.
Best parts of SC: guest keyboard player and guest female singer.
In Flames should have replaced Jesper with a keyboard player. I'm not even joking - Engelin doesn't contribute to the songwriting according to Anders/Bjorn and you can barely tell there are two guitars on this album anyway. There are so many electronic elements to In Flames songs now that there would be little difference at live shows between playing pre-recorded guitars to pre-recorded keyboards. With the old songs disappearing quickly they really have little need for a second guitar player at this point.
This, or get rid of Anders, Engelin and all producers, then, hire Jesper and Stanne and get back to doing proper stuff.
This, or get rid of Anders, Engelin and all producers, then, hire Jesper and Stanne and get back do doing proper stuff.
I don't like Mikael Stanne. He's such a boring singer. And his clean vocals... Buagh.
As for The Chase. It has that riff that it's a variation from the Black and White intro. But still I think it's not a bad song. Probably the best of the album for me.
Edit: as for the producers, I agree. In this album most of the solo guitars sound more like a midi than like an actual distorted guitar.
Possibly, but they added a little more blast beats on the last album. And for the cleans, I don't think they are weak at all. Especially since they aren't used that much save for the last album. I like how they actually sound a little different on the last album compared to One for Sorrow. If you listen closely, there are actually two people singing the cleans together.
Midas
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I find the storytelling to be great. I don't know of one song where the lyrics have disappointed me. I give you that Johan's voice didn't appeal to me at first, but his voice has evolved into likely the best growl in the world.
Also, The Last With Pagan Blood has no intro. Don't you mean Thousand Years Of Oppression?
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AA is good. But the problem with this bands (I mean, those restricted to labels like Viking, Pagan, Pagan Black Metal, etc) is that they soon have nothing new to talk about. So they must repeat the same stories once and once again.
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This, or get rid of Anders, Engelin and all producers, then, hire Jesper and Stanne and get back to doing proper stuff.
Then you'd basically have The Resistance with Bjorn throwing in some hard rock melodies here and there
This is probably the closest to MDM that I've heard in recent times that I've actually enjoyed listening to. The clean vocals will turn off a lot of people, but I like the vibe the music has and the production is great.
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It has a 1min intro before the first verse kicks in. I don't know why I like it so much but that tremolo riff is just so catchy, brutal and rhythmic at the same time. First 30 seconds are great, but then between 0:33-1:09 is easily one of my favorite music moments ever.
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Then you'd basically have The Resistance with Bjorn throwing in some hard rock melodies here and there
This is probably the closest to MDM that I've heard in recent times that I've actually enjoyed listening to. The clean vocals will turn off a lot of people, but I like the vibe the music has and the production is great.
Have you heard Shade Empire's latest album? Finnish MDM/other stuff with lots of orchestrations and stuff, I really like it.
One of the best songs on the album
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj8BY3bvGJo
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I've been listening to it for over 2 months and I still think it's really bad.
Midas
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Good stories are worth telling several times. Also, from different perspectives (see below). Also, how many songs aren't there about love? (A subject I find absolutely fucking boring as FUCK.) It almost always is about a guy and a girl and a beach and flowers and sunlight and shit like that. Almost. Rammstein is the only group I have heard who does it in an interesting, provoking way, and their songs are almost exclusively about love.
Here's one story told through the perspective of Surtur. (The fire giant who will kill Frej and destroy the Universe.)
Here's the same story but seen through the eyes of Frej.
Code:
See him rise, (see me fall)
from land of flames, (to the might of flames)
destruction is at hand.
It is time to make stand
now I face, (now I face)
an awesome foe, (an awesome foe)
I will always stand my ground
To this end my fate is bound!
This fight is mine and mine alone
when there's no help from anyone!
His wrath burns!
With insane heat
all his fury is unleashed.
There is no way to defeat,
the forces and the power that he wields!
My hand holds the horn so firm
I am calm and ready to die
Everything around me burns
And I know that I will not survive!
See him rise, (see me fall)
from the land of flames, (to the might of flames)
destruction is at hand.
It is time to make stand
My death awaits, I have no fear
To this end my fate is bound
though I'm doomed
I'll stand my ground!
This fight is mine and mine alone
when there's no help from anyone!
--
I go forth to meet my doom
but I will die in vain
perdition waits for everyone
The world will die
In Flames (Trollolol)
With all my strength I run the horn
deep into his eye
And as he swings his burning sword
I die with a tired smile!
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I'll give it a listen later and let you know my thoughts... it's about time I got into some new metal, I can only listen to my current playlist for so long
Well, I'm not a fan of Bon Jovi... Love songs usually say nothing.
But still I think it's a very restricted genre. Even when you change your viewpoints, I still think there is always the same, not from them (I mean the band), but for the whole genre. It's just like Black Metal, it's sooooo boring as a genre. Although I must say I'm very fan of viking stories, I love norse mithology and literature.
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Jester Slave
Narcissist
What about R2R-STYE-CC? You dislike the latest 3 albums (maybe consider SOAPF OK, but OK is not good) while probably like the TJR-Whoracle-Colony era the best, but I did not seem to pick up comments from you about those 3 albums. Would you go to concerts if it was heavily based on those 3 albums, while the first and last 3 albums (Lunar Strain excluded) only get like one or two songs per setlist?
If you hated the R2R-STYE-CC era as well it would make me question why do you even have faith in IF to produce another record that is similiar to their pre-2000 sound, or at the very least a mix of both like Clayman. I always thought people who consider them IF fans (and not "once IF fans") are on message boards like this or Facebook because they at least enjoy their concerts. Like, NIN have a vast variety of songs, and while there are always debate which album or era was the best, there is little to no arguement that they put up amazing shows. (note: they play a lot of older songs though, haven't checked IF setlists lately)
I'm a newer fan myself but I had no problem with them playing a 50-50 setlist with newer/older songs having a balanced place. They have many great songs on their earlier records and Zombie Inc. has probably the most epic 30-40 seconds segment in the IF catalog and I'd be happy to eject some newer hit for it. Songs like that, or Colony, or Moonshield or Jotun or a whole lotta more would not alienate new fans at all.
But we have to keep in mind this:
"Old IF": 3 albums
"New IF": now 6 albums
Clayman is pretty much 0,5 for both sides, but OFTW is a staple and LS gives one whole song to the old IF category. Maybe it's my LS hate speaking from me, but if IF wanted to select some old goodies for their setlist I'd rather take anything from TJR-Whoracle-Colony than any of the LS songs. They are simply better quality songs and from an era that actually defined the sounding of IF.
Anyway, if I were IF I'd definetly do a club-tour after the SC tour where I played a lot of older songs (even STYE songs can be considered old ones today) while ejecting the "must play" songs or limiting them to 1/show. Not for the fans in particular, but for myself as well. Sure, my favourite album would always be the last one, I would be pretty stupid to release the album I don't consider my best (there are rare exceptions though, but bands tied to labels can't release such on-the-fly albums/eps), but I sure as hell would enjoy playing 1. older hits again, must feel rejuvenating 2. songs not- or rarely ever played. There's also the possibility of playing an album from start to finish in one or two shows(would definetly not do it more, you want to keep it as a super special thing), it must give everyone the chills.
I also think it would be easy money, because you don't need any production if you plan to do such a freestyle tour-leg. No needs for pyros and screens if you play Colony or Episode 666.
Btw, older fans not attending as a protest is just a sign that they are no longer interested in IF and they do not dig how they evolved over the years. It should not by any means encourage IF to return to their older styles. I'd be really disappointed if IF only played old fan-favourites just to lure the older fans in. And yes, I would say the same if R2R and STYE would've been the first IF albums while Whoracle and Colony were the new shit. I can respect an artist for wanting to improve, I can not howewer if they want to play cheap tricks on me. Live performance is really about how the band is enjoying themselves. Maybe Anders is a fucking terrible singer live, idk, will hear it soon, but if he will play songs he can get into (whether it's Moonshield or Paralyzed, to give you a contrast) I'd enjoy it for sure, rather than listening to him singing a song he finds "meh" and only doing it for moneyz.
If you have to suffer through so much for a concert which's quality you are unsure about then it's entirely understandable, here's hoping they come to play near you in 2015! Where do you live btw?
As for quality reviews, it's just as up to personal taste as our likings of the new album. Let's say someone says XY song on SC is so well written and beautiful. For you it might be empty words, while I might take it as a good review with good arguements (let's pretend he did say why he thinks it's beautiful and a masterpiece), while someone saying the whole album is utter shit and boring because of this and that makes you nod, while I think his arguement is BS and only valid if you view the record from a very specific perspective. Like, I'M pretty sure a site whose writers are hardcore MDM fans will give a pretty bad review to this album, which is a valuable review to people who want to know whether IF made Colony part 2 or not, but extremely unhelpful for a regular music listener, who can listen to everything if it has quality.
I don't really have any music reviewer sites that I trust, especially after fucking Pitchfork gave a 2.0 to NIN's The Fragile and has not retacted to review ever since. Disgusting and goes to show you can always find a review site you can point out saying "see? told you it's the worst thing ever hapened to humanity". Anyhow, I'll be interested how all-around music review sites like IGN, allmusic or even that fucking pitchfork will rate SC. Most of the people will look for those sites for reviews anyway.
Your first paragraph is entirely right, if those metalheads did not attend those few hundred people big venues at the start of their career, or did not buy their albums, they would be nowhere. Five years old me would have a pretty hard time to do any of those things. But how can you think they owe you anything aside from playing old songs as well? You describe some fucked up relationship where you know you don't like the other person anymore as much as you used to, but man, you gave each other so much, you better keep suffering and/or limiting your life because you owe her/him.
Also, according to Anders they don't play as many old songs because at that time they did not think about how those songs would transfer to live shows, and most of them sounds shitty. Though I'm not sure why can't they rework 4-5 older songs to fit into the setlist more, it's not like they have to play the song the same way as it was on the album. And if someone would hate on Artifacts of the Black Rain for example because it got a new, electronic intro (like Cloud Connected) and some reworked guitar parts (solo would be the same ofc) to fit the live version better, than that guy is stucked in the past forever and he is hopeless for sure.
By the way, IF can pretty much please new fans with playing OFTW, Take This Life and maybe The Quiet Place while all the other songs could be older ones. The only exception would be festivals, where people are not deep into the IF catalog, so they pretty much have to play a best of show if they want to get invited again, but it's not like they can't throw some random stuff there too as well.
To be honest IF owes only one thing to old fans, but even so to themselves: do not discredit or deny their older material. Anders always emphasize how every one of their album was the best at that time and how crucial they were in their progress as a band. It would be really disgusting if his attitude was more like "yeah, you know, in hindsight they are pretty awful, I don't enjoy them anymore, they were just learning steps, nothing more".
Hmm, controversial opinion here - not sure how sarcastic you were, if at all -, but I think if it was not for Anders, the band would've died a long time ago. I see people praising Jesper and how he should've never left and IF should'Ve kicked that talentless asshole Anders instead of him. How can you praise an alcoholic so much? It's obvious from interviews that Jesper created a toxic environment to work in, and the only reason he was not kicked immidietly is because of his legacy. See, this is where owing someone gets you. Miss out entire tour legs for drinking? Being impossible to work with? Not caring about the music you try to do at all? Who cares, he's a founding member and he did amazing job on their earlier records so let's just wash his throne and suffer in silence.This, or get rid of Anders, Engelin and all producers, then, hire Jesper and Stanne and get back to doing proper stuff.
We will never know how the leadership shifted in IF during the years, but I read so many stupid comments about how Anders derailed IF while Jesper did not agree with it at all. Just wow, you have to be the biggest pussy in the world if you let someone force you to do stuff you don't want to in your own band and you still stay with them for almost a decade! Hell, even Anders said in interviews how he had to redo his part if the band did not like it. Sure, he sounded salty about it, but if I were told "jeez man, this sucks, try again" after working on something passionately, I'd be pretty mad initially as well.
DE4life was spot on when he said IF is a brand, and it's a brand that would not exist today if Anders had not joined. First of all, no matter how terrible you find his voice, it's characteristic and unique. Unless it's your genre that is mainstream at the moment, you won't get far with a bland, "heard it a million times" voice, even if you can sing better than Anders.
It was also - most likely - Anders who did the most to encourage or fuel the shifting style of IF. On TJR Anders is nothing but an MDM tool, like it or not. I can't think of any TJR song which would suck if it was "random MDM singer #216172318" instead of him. Back to topic, if IF had not evolve, you'd be talking about it on some underground forum with the same people for years.
- Dude, The Jester Race part 4 was so fucking good!
- Yeah, but The Jester Race part 2 was still better imo.
- Who is their singer again?
- I don't know, but semi-decent growls as usual. Such talent!
Now, whether IF preserved their core integrity among all these changes is debateable, but there's not much point to it, because it's a debate that was settled the day Reroute To Remain has been released. If they did not according to hardcore fans, then fuck Anders (and the rest of the band, including Jesper for agreeing with him), erase IF from every social media's "your favourite bands" list. 12 years should be more than enough time to do it. Howewer, if you believe it's still IF, but at least now they are properly payed and praised for their talent, then be thankful to Anders (and the rest of the band, including Jesper for agreeing with him). No, this DOES NOT mean you have to like every record of theirs, just because you liked CC and Colony as well, doesn't mean you have to like ASOP or SC too.
I don't know which category you people are, most of you seem to radiate some positive thoughts about IF, so I would assume the number of "CLAYMAN IS THE LAST GOOD IF ALBUM, THE REST IS 0/10, DONT BUY NEW IF ALBUMS PLS AND KEEP SPAMMING THEIR FB PAGE!!!!"-people are low. Would be cool if everyone's signature contained to answers to such questions as what is your favourite/least favourite IF album, rate the 3 singers IF had from the best to the worst, would you/do you still go to IF concerts, favourite/least favourite IF songs, best/worst shift in IF's music between two albums, how old are you, do you think IF sold out or do you think you just simply don't like their new music, how cool are Anders' glasses on scale of 9 to 10.
There's a bit too much to respond to here
but I'll sum up my opinion by saying ultimately all In Flames owe the fans is a decent representation of the older songs on their setlist and an acknowledgement that they have moved away from that style, rather than pretending it's still related to the gothenburg sound and teasing fans about some of the tracks sounding like "old IF" (yes, they do unfortunately do this every so often). Anders excuse about old songs not transferring live is bullshit, and he knows it. Excuses like that grate on my nerves and seem like an easy brush off, I'd rather he just said "we don't really enjoy playing those songs live anymore" or "we only want to play the hits to increase the chances of fringe fans buying our more commercial album". If you're going to exclude the old stuff from your setlist, at least be honest as to the reason why. It's not like the haters are going to hate any more than they already do
I like Reroute and Come Clarity well enough, I'm not so keen on STYE but a lot of the songs on that album sound good live. If the entire concert was based on these three albums I probably wouldn't go, but if it was revolving mainly around those three albums plus a few tracks from the older albums then yes, I'd probably go and see them. That's pretty much what they did in 2006 and I enjoyed the concert a lot. I just have no interest in hearing ASOP/SC songs live.
Also, for the record I love SOAPF. It's my fav album of the new era... I just doubt Anders could pull the vocals off in a live environment.
Jester Slave
Narcissist
To be fair, most of their songs since Clayman are much more live-friendly than their earlier ones. I mean, would you play Jester Script Transfigured (could be a great filler song on the setlist btw as it can come/followed up by both a heavier or softer song) or play Leeches and Like You Better Dead as those two songs almost last the same time together as JCT. I imagine most of their earlier songs live as the band performs beautifully written tracks the crowd can enjoy, while most of their new songs makes you go apeshift with their tempo and easy-to-sing verses/choruses.There's a bit too much to respond to here
Anders excuse about old songs not transferring live is bullshit, and he knows it. Excuses like that grate on my nerves and seem like an easy brush off, I'd rather he just said "we don't really enjoy playing those songs live anymore" or "we only want to play the hits to increase the chances of fringe fans buying our more commercial album". If you're going to exclude the old stuff from your setlist, at least be honest as to the reason why. It's not like the haters are going to hate any more than they already do
I like Reroute and Come Clarity well enough, I'm not so keen on STYE but a lot of the songs on that album sound good live. If the entire concert was based on these three albums I probably wouldn't go, but if it was revolving mainly around those three albums plus a few tracks from the older albums then yes, I'd probably go and see them. That's pretty much what they did in 2006 and I enjoyed the concert a lot. I just have no interest in hearing ASOP/SC songs live.
Also, for the record I love SOAPF. It's my fav album of the new era... I just doubt Anders could pull the vocals off in a live environment.
Imo the rate should be 2/3 in favour to the crowd-friendly songs. Most of the live show attenders want to be rocked hard, not sit down for 2 hours with a glass of wine enjoying every bit of sound, unless it's a special show.
Btw, I'm not sure how famous The Hive is among the old fans, but seems to be a pretty stupid choice to me over all the other possibilities. Colony not being a staple (really, the easiest song to please new and old fans as well, I'd definetly play it at every show if I were them) is questionable itself, but imo there are so many better old songs than The Hive. Don't get me wrong, I think it's pretty cool to throw some random songs into the setlist once in a while, but as I check setlist.fm it was a staple for their last tour.
Also, IF is totally missing out on such an easy thing to please older fans and make some of their own songs more interesting:
1. MERGE THEM! Ending a song with 30secs of Whoracle or lifting solos from older tracks to newer ones are more than doable and could make songs they rarely or never play live to (re)appear.
Chcking setlist.fm more, it's not just the older fans they like to screw with. Dawn Of A New Day, Free Fall and Suburban Me not performed at all??!
Though I always wondered how could he perform DOAND or SM, as the former needs heavy pre-recorded singing and the latter sounds pretty damn hard to sing. At least in Take This Life he switches between screams/cleans, but in SM he's kinda doing both at the same time. But why not Free Fall? That song not even appearing in the shows which were promoting R2R, let alone reappearing later on is pretty interesting. It doesn't seem to have any element Anders couldn't have done back in 2002.Edit: how is Cloud Connected their most played song, lol? Beating out OFTW and Pinball Map which were released 2 years earlier. It's far from the cheesiest IF tracks.
only4theweak187
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- Mar 19, 2014
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Yes because me quoting one of DE4life's quotes as truth puts me on his dick hahahaha k.
Stop taking "negativity" towards this piece of garbage as a personal attack.
My opinion is just as wrong or right as yours.
I tried listening again and every song is just ruined one way or another. SOAPF's style of cleans would've been fine on these songs especially In Plain View, Siren Charms, Paralyzed and Dead Eyes.
But still, these songs are terribly forgetful and nothing sticks in your brain that makes you go yeah this is good shit. No guitar riffs to get into and just a mundane sound overall.
Now someone, break MY comments down as "wrong"
Stop taking "negativity" towards this piece of garbage as a personal attack.
My opinion is just as wrong or right as yours.
I tried listening again and every song is just ruined one way or another. SOAPF's style of cleans would've been fine on these songs especially In Plain View, Siren Charms, Paralyzed and Dead Eyes.
But still, these songs are terribly forgetful and nothing sticks in your brain that makes you go yeah this is good shit. No guitar riffs to get into and just a mundane sound overall.
Now someone, break MY comments down as "wrong"
It's true that some songs off the older albums would be difficult to play live, JST being one of them. However you could say the same for newer songs - Metaphor and Dead End, as two examples. TJR/Whoracle would contain a lot of songs that wouldn't go down so well live, but tracks like Behind Space, Upon an Oaken Throne, Stand Ablaze, Moonshield, The Jester Race (sounds incredible live, I can personally attest to that!), Morphing Into Primal, Episode 666, and so on are very good live tracks. And pretty much anything off Colony/Clayman would get the crowd going, I'm sure. In Flames have a strange lack of faith in their older material being good crowd pleasers - but it certainly didn't put off people when they were starting out.
The Hive does seem like a strange choice. But it ends with a very long instrumental/solo, so maybe it's played to give Anders a chance to rest his voice. They seem to pick some very bizarre songs to play when it comes to their older stuff - they started playing Worlds Within the Margin a few years back... of all the older songs, I can't think of many less suited to a live environment. It's almost like they were doing it on purpose to "prove" that older songs don't get much reaction. But then they also make some strange choices on newer material too - opening with The Chosen Pessimist, for example, which is an awful decision. For a band so focused on playing their songs live they sometimes make some bewildering choices regarding their setlist.
Interesting you should say that. When I went to their 2008 show they did a Jester Race medley which was very well received. It contained TJR, Dead God in Me and another which I forget now. That material sounded fantastic live and the crowd were very responsive. The band seemed surprised, again like they've convinced themselves none of their newer fans could possibly like the older material. It's kind of sad.
Rightly or wrongly R2R did very well for In Flames at release, and they've played Cloud Connected constantly throughout their tours. A lot of their 'newer' fans probably started with R2R and either didn't go back to or didn't care much for anything before that album. It's not such a surprise to me, though it is a shame as they have numerous songs far superior to Cloud Connected.
I was being mostly sarcastic when I said to stop dick riding him. I never said the negativity was a personal attack. I would have said the same exact things even if I completely hated the album. It's annoying when people just say things as facts instead of just taking 2 seconds to write, "in my opinion". That will avoid so many responses and back-and-forth arguments that happen so often here. You didn't say the songs weren't memorable, you said they all sounded the same. I'm pretty sure if you heard any 5 second clip of any of the songs, you would know what song it is. That means they sound different. Now, if none of them are memorable to you, that's completely different, and fine.
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