I agree with the old songs in the setlist point. They should include more older songs. But generally I dont agree with what you are saying regarding them using the IF name for the new album for the reasons I said before and for the fact that you yourself admit that you wont buy it which proves my point.
In Flames New Album being released in Q2 of 2014 thread
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I agree with the old songs in the setlist point. They should include more older songs. But generally I dont agree with what you are saying regarding them using the IF name for the new album for the reasons I said before and for the fact that you yourself admit that you wont buy it which proves my point.
If they didn't have the In Flames brand name to rely on I believe they'd put much more effort into their music. Whether it's true or not, who knows. Just my opinion.
I will admit that the setlist one is a toughie. Assuming they play 20 songs, "the hitz" from 2002 - 2008 will have to be included by default:
Cloud Connected
Trigger
The Quiet Place
My Sweet Shadow
Take This Life
Come Clarity/Crawl Thru Knives
The Mirror's Truth
Alias
Delight & Angers
You'll also have at least three from SOAPF, as the most recent release before SC, so probably
SOAPF
Deliver Us
Fear is the Weakness/Where the Dead Ships Dwell
That's already used up 12 songs. They'll play at least 4, probably 5 from the new album. Let's say:
In Plain View
Paralyzed
When The World Explodes
Rusted Nail
Through Oblivion
17 songs now used up.
Only For The Weak will almost certainly be included from Clayman, so that's 18 slots filled, practically by default.
2 songs left and we haven't included the likes of System, Pinball Map, Leeches, Disconnected(
uke: ), Touch of Red...Chances of fitting in anything from TJR/Whoracle/Colony? Pretty much zero unless they drop a few of 'the hits', which isn't going to happen. The release of Siren Charms may be the actual death knell for the older songs, because there doesn't seem to be any room for them anymore.
And I acknowledge but still defend my position about bands saying fans aren't part of the band. Sure, some bands may not care, as you say. But I think it's a horrible stance. Even At the Gates, a legendary band, just said in a recent interview that they don't write music for the fans, just for themselves. I disagree with the attitude. Luckily for us, it just so happens that what comes 'from the heart' of ATG is by default true to their roots and always sounds stellar. And this isn't just limited to In Flames. I attack other bands who change their style and rub it in the face of old school fans. Just so happens that IF change was so drastic it could really be made into a documentary. And not a positive one! I've said it a million times, but just go listen to anything pre R2R and then listen to the new record. It's a totally different band in music, look, attitude, and effort. Berbeda sama sekali
Jester Slave
Narcissist
People only try to hiss away the trolls. It's true that those trolls made almost every negative comment perceived as uncalled hate.
1. Favourite: Heart: Reroute to Remain Brain: Come Clarity.
2.Least favourite: Heart: Sounds Of A Playground Fading Brain: The Jester Race /Lunar Strain would win both, but felt like a cope-out from the question/
3. Ahaha, very clever answer! Anders/Stand Ablaze Guy/Satan reincarnate guy. My favourite Anders was on STYE and CC,
4. Favourite song: Dawn Of A New Day. Least favourite: random filler tracks
5. The shift in musical, lyrical, singing, etc style between two albums. Imo the worst shift was between Come Clarity and A Sense Of Purpose. The best was probably TJR-Whoracle.
I'm 22, I think they wanted to change anyway, they just went to a direction that actually brings $$$s as well, but the ygenuenly enjoy what they are doing. Glasses are 9, definetly.
This sounds sad. Also, they never claimed they are still hardcore MDM, I think bands couldn't care less what genre they are in. At least the good ones.
What do they owe you? You tell them they can't play the music they want under the name IF, you claim you purists were the key for their stardom, but in reality, Reroute To Remain was sold more times in the US than all of their previous albums overall, and I'm pretty sure those numbers were actually boosted by R2R and not vice versa. You were there for them from the start and without you they would have never reached their nowaday status, but you did not make them mainstream, you actually became their worst enemy. You became the obstacle in their progress as musicians, and they could not do shit with your reviews of their newer albums because it probably had one good statement about them all: "thank god the album is over and I do not ever have to listen to any of those shitty tracks again". Helps no one, only makes you look like an ass. "Heeeey, Anders, do you remember when you used to play in our local festival?? Good times, eh? What happened to you? Come back, will ya?" I'm pretty sure he remembers, but likes the mainstage much more, with ten thousands fans. Sure, they are not real fans, they were not listening to Lunar Strain on casette, hell, maybe they are not into melodic death metal either, but THEY are the ones supporting them now. They are NOT the ones who write their 0/10 reviews before they even heard any songs from the upcoming album. They are the ones whose criticism they can consider as unbiased.
You don't buy their albums anymore, you don't go to their concerts, you don't buy merchandise. You have your collection from LS to Clayman, R2R is probably already burned and that's all. You are part of their 8 years, new fans are part of their 12 years. That's right, some of the new fans are actually more veteran IF fans than you are. They actually have "more right" (bullshit, no one has any right upon someone or something else) to complain. You don't worth more by any means than newer fans, you can't even be called a fan anymore. You are someone who liked them very much but got alienated by their new sound. 12 years ago. That's primary and secondary school finished. That's 3 olympics and football world championships. The Twin Towers had to survive for only one more year to hear Reroute To Remain. That's a fucking long time to get over things.
Still, you think they owe you anything and that they should appeal to you. Abuse 101 right there.
That's so petty, really. New fans sustain them, and if the old ones refuse to like anything new, then geez, it's their loss, no one cares to be honest. I mean sure, live off the idea that the only reason they are famous now is because you bought The Jester Race as a teen. Did you like it? Yes, you did. You have nothing to complain; if you don't like them anymore, just break ties, no one's stopping you, and you listen to the old material as many times as you want.
Truth is, you were just as an important asset to their progress as the new fans, nothing more. I understand the elitist mentality, "I was here first!", but it holds no value. If we want to continue your analogy, it was actually your mother and father who helped IF, because if you had not been born, then you couldn't have supported them in the early days.
Should they play more old tracks? Sure, nor the newer nor the older fans wants the opposite. Should they constantly do tributes to the guys who helped their first 8 years, which is like 40% of their career now? Hell no.
Seriosuly, you have a pretty pre-historic stance on this. If I were to make an album and you were one of the ten followers of mine, and I actually realised I could do so much more musically, so I release my next album which is kinda different than my first one, because I learned new instruments and whatnot, then I'd be a piece of shame? And even if suddenly I had 1000 followers, if I wanted to be a decent human being and musician, my third album should be the same as the second one ,even though I learned sooo much more since my second one? What the fuck is that.
You clearly want them to limit themselves FOR YOU, meanwhile you forget that musicians are artists as well. You are the boyfriend who tells his gf how to dress, where she can go, who she can talk with, because you think you fucking own her, and if she thinks she's still an individual she is wrong, She is a part of you now, and if she dares to break-up with you, then good luck handling 12 years of stalking and constant abusive text messaging.
Fans. Are. Not. Part. Of. Your. Music. If you can not understand this I have bad news for you. There are a thousand ways to be nice to your fans, making music they demand from you is not one of them. Fans are part of the band, but NOT their music. Never.
Wait, nevermind, they are part of Nickelback's music. There we go.
I'm sure there are fans out there who only like LS and TJR because the shift from those albums to Whoracle and Colony was too big. This shift to SC is really no bigger than any other shift from album to album in their career. It just so happens that it's a shift a lot of people don't like so it seems larger.
Fans are not a part of the band, especially when they don't give the band any money (since R2R).
Fans are not a part of the band, especially when they don't give the band any money (since R2R).
This is a ridiculous statement to make. The exact opposite is true. Good fans definitely care about the genre of their favorite bands because they promote them and stick up for them. Hardcore metal fans, or longtime fans like myself are very nit-picky with refined opinions about genres and subgenres because they matter. Genres make classification easier. They make discussion and comparisons much easier. Metal would be a disaster without genres. So you're wrong. or more exactly, for the casual listener, maybe they don't care. But for old school metal fans like myself and collectors, we definitely care.
I'm trying to quote JesterSlave and shred his lengthy post but when I click quote the background is too dark and I can't see shit. i can't read it. is there a way to make the fucking background lighter in the reply?
Yep because they went for the $ with the big choru$e$, so that isn't surprising.
False. Like the other member said, we became the ones URGING the band to become better musicians and continue to push themselves with playing and songwriting. How can you talk about us being an impediment to progress as musicians? Do you really think the band progressed as musicians from R2R onward? The exact opposite is true by any objective standard. Everything went down: riffing, soloing, creativity, vocals. Everything. And you're right we didn't make the band mainstream. That's the goal of most hardcore fans. To avoid mainstream. Not for any elitist reasons, but from the simple acknowledgment (which you seem to fail to understand) that there is an exact correlation between mainstream success (aka MONEY) and output quality. I mean, this is so obvious as to be laughable. The bands I respect are the ones who are comfortable with remaining in the underground and having a real legacy and real, true fans. Many metal bands don't sell out. They work day jobs. They don't complain. They just do it for the music. IF doesn't have to say it, but how much more obvious could it be? The band gained popularity through a massive appeal to mainstream music/aggressive music fans. They wrote one album with catchy choruses, herded in the masses, decided to adopt this style and ignore their old fan base. Ever since then they've been releasing album after album full of lazy musicianship but lots of 'hooks' and just reaping the financial rewards ever since. I mean look at a comparable band like Arch Enemy. They shifted their sound as well, though not as drastic as IF. They're not as good as they once were, but at least Mike Amott and Daniel still play their instruments. At least they still write aggressive music more or less true to their roots. Fuck, behind everything you're saying seems to be one underlying assumption: "as bands get older they change and this is normal." Actually this is NOT the case. The vast, vast majority of established metal bands still going today with any kind of legacy, either complete or in the making have NOT changed their sound. This once again, is simply a fact. I can name the bands if you'd like.
I don't understand what you're getting at here.
Yea he likes the mainstage more where he doesn't have to be held accountable for his laziness. He likes the mainstage where the band can spit in the face of old school fans by completely ignoring songs from their early days. That's great of any band to do, sure. But hey, he's exposing himself to ten thousand wallets. And Unbiased? The same people on this forum that kiss the bands ass no matter what they release? The "fanboys" as I guess the term goes. Unbiased? haha.
What do you mean no one has the right to complain? WTF? Everyone has the right to complain about any fucking thing they want.This stuff above doesn't matter because even if it were true that they've been fans longer than us early listeners, that doesn't mean they have any more right. All they're responsible for is financing the band from a certain point onward. There wouldn't BE a band to finance without the likes of the underground fans from back in the day. Plus, on a side note, if I were an elitist I'd say that a lot of them are passers by who hear the band on the radio and then run around screaming how awesome the band is. That isn't real. There's no passion. It's flavor of the month stuff. But I wont say it because I am not an elitist. So in trying to make your point about some relationship between length of band support and right to complain, you have once again failed.
Yea sure. And I never said I wasn't "over" the band. This isn't junior high. Like I've said a million times, I don't post here. I'm not a fan. I do like to stop by whenever an album is released just to remind the numetal kids of the laziness and arrogance of the band.
What kind of abuse?
This is a horrible attempt at an analogy but I think I understand it. The key parts of your example above are: 1: "realized I could do so much more musically". IF did not do "so much more" musically with RTR. They did so much LESS. And 2: "kinda different than the first". Are you saying that RTR is just..."kind of different" from albums before it? You seem to fail to understand the magnitude of the change pre/post Clayman.
This is a pathetic piece of writing. You should blush on your way home from work.
Oxymoron. How can fans be part of a band outside of their music? That logically simply makes zero sense. It would mean that a 'fan' could be someone who, what, hangs out with the band because they're cool guys, but doesn't like the music they make? That would be what we call a 'friend', not a 'fan'. I don't know if you're living in a non English speaking country because a lot of your syntax is hard to understand. I'm not making fun of you if that's the case, but you should try to be clearer in your writing.
I agree. If, isntead of Jesper leaving, they parted ways and, under a different brand, at first lot of fans would listen to whatever they release but, at last, meny of them would lost interest and the whole fanbase would be divided between those following Anders/Bjorn project, those following Jesper project and those who wouldn't care for any of them.
I own the passenger album and it was good (as an Anders side project) and far more experimental and diversal than SC.
As for not caring for the fans. I think its a plain lie. There is a recent interview in wich Anders states that they like to challenge the fans. They also claim that they would be nothing without the fans support and they event created this country jesterheads bullshit so the fans promote their music. So, indeed they do care about the fans.
As someone claimed before that many people were hating the album before hearing it, I saw many (IFWT) comments saying that the album would be great just before listening to it, and this kind of people will blindly buy and accept everything they do, but I don't think they would buy the album under a different band name.
Ok. Best shift Whoracle/Colony. Worst Come Clarity/A Sense of Purpose.
Of course they anjoy what they're doing. I don't think that tere's a single musician that doesn't enjoy what he does, but this doesn't mean that you cannot sell out in the way. Glasses is what stupid football players wear to give a smart look.
There is a lot of old fans that like everything they did until now. But there's a lot of new fans that keep on saying that we shouldn't be there giving comments just because we don't like new album.
I must say that there is some kind of concept mistake. At this point, old IF is not only the melodeath days (I count Clayman as old IF), but everything they did until ASOP. Why? because the new album sounds so different that you can only join it with SOAPF, it has nothing to do with the rest of their albums.
I don't think is elitism. Not claiming to be better fans than anibody, just stating a fact, no old IF fans, no new IF, so no new IF fans. They should've never released a RTR without the support from the people who bought the 5 first albums, and this is an objective fact.
LOL, I still find this "progress as musician", "evolve" and "every album is different" mantra hilarious.
Uninformed fans would think IF moved closer to the likes of Opeth, Death, Atheist, Arcturus, Enslaved... not closer to Papa Roach, Nickelback and the whole fucking US metalcore and emo scene.
Uninformed fans would think IF moved closer to the likes of Opeth, Death, Atheist, Arcturus, Enslaved... not closer to Papa Roach, Nickelback and the whole fucking US metalcore and emo scene.
You now that there are many new IF fans that don't give the band money at all.
Obviously there is no progression as musicians. The only one who tried to inprove his instrument was Anders and it was a failure. Before anyone starts to complain let me explain. As a singer, you cannot only inprove yourself in studio, you've gotta be a better singer live too. There's were the singers are really judged. So, if you do stuff at stidio that cannot do live, then there's no inprovement at all.
As for evolve. Evolution is something that comes naturally, not something you force to "challenge the fans" (Anders words).
You know what would really challenge the fans?
Album without pop formula song structures revolving around catchy chorus. After 10+ years of that shit.
Or God forbid, proper songs longer then 4-5 minutes. Blasphemy!
Or such unimaginable things as changing the tempo and time signature? Woooow!
Writing melodies and solos longer then few seconds. Writing complex riffs that actually carry the song...
I guess half of the fanbase would end up with their brains all over the wall from such a unspoken complexity and challenge.
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