The relation between Racism and Metal

[The Minds Eye]

Hey all!

This is something which has both interested me for quite a long time and somewhat bothered me also, I've noticed a trend alot of metal heads I've met tend to be somewhat racist and alot of Stormfront.org members (world biggest white supremcist forum) state they listen to metal. Which for me is really dissapointing metal for me is a very positive thing I love it and because of it I discovered my passion (music), I was wondering a few things.

A) Have you noticed this? What do you think about it?
B) Why do you think this happens?


Like when I first came here I was thinking I certainly hope it wouldnt be like that and gladly I can say it isn't. For those who are wondering btw I'm of Jewish and also of Scandinavian/Welsh heritage. I think the reason for this is because young bitter angry people see Metal as something they can relate to and this is probally the case with alot of white supremists.


(I dont know if this belongs in this board sorry if not but I think its a pretty serious discussion) Also its probally been discussed before but I couldn't find anything on it.

 

[Evil?]

I think that some of it has to due with ppl listening to metal to be a hardass. What music fits the big angry bald guy racist stereotype better?

 

[Thelema60]

Hey all!

I've noticed a trend alot of metal heads I've met tend to be somewhat racist and alot of Stormfront.org members state they listen to metal.

A) Have you noticed this? What do you think about it?
B) Why do you think this happens?

I think the reason for this is because young bitter angry people see Metal as something they can relate to and this is probally the case with alot of white supremists.

Hi!
(I try to write in English, but I'm no native speaker ... so perhaps you have to read between the wrong words)
Just to mention one aspect, obviously there's a correlation between aggressive music and aggressive mind. But that doesn't necessarily determine the political direction, not in a direct, one-dimensional way. In Germoney, there's a tendency that the left listen to hardcore/punk and the right to oi or metal; of course, that doesn't mean all metalheads are right wing. If you want to check out the structural correlations between, in this case, attitudes, behaviour, character, cultural manifestations like music, literature etc, you might find useful Theodor W. Adorno a.o.: The Authoritarian Personality (Studies In Prejudice, 3). There you find a cluster of categories to analyze authoritarian/fascist/racist etc structures in people and cultural expressions like music, texts etc. I've done this 20 years ago with the Lord of the Rings, cause I "felt" fascistoid patterns in behaviour of characters and reasons Tolkien gave. Thus You get a totally different insight into texts; not cheerin up, you gotto differ the story in it's aestetical, mythological, psychological(-political) dimensions to enjoy the text, but it's worth it (and you learn to differ between fascistoid elements in the thinking/behaviour/attitudes of your friends and your friends as a whole; not always easy, perhaps you don't want to take this step just for gaining knowledge) I will think for structural connections between metal and supremist (?) attitudes, but I don't know such people ...

greetings

 

[biggsy]

I think that some of it has to due with ppl listening to metal to be a hardass. What music fits the big angry bald guy racist stereotype better?

Agreed. Right wing extremists such as white supremists are just that... extreme. In my experience, everything in an extremists life is just that. They lose their temper quickly, have short attention spans, enjoy exciting things (V8 car racing, extreme sports etc.) and listen to metal. Can you imagine a member of the KKK singing along to Kanye West or Rhianna? This is only in my experience (my uncle is pro-white and racist).

 

[The Minds Eye]

Agreed. Right wing extremists such as white supremists are just that... extreme. In my experience, everything in an extremists life is just that. They lose their temper quickly, have short attention spans, enjoy exciting things (V8 car racing, extreme sports etc.) and listen to metal. Can you imagine a member of the KKK singing along to Kanye West or Rhianna? This is only in my experience (my uncle is pro-white and racist).

Yeah your probally right I've noticed these trends too, though it does seem to put a negative aspect on our musical taste and the metal lifestyle, you know people who know nothing will make assumptions . And I know there are a few pro-white bands as well, which I personally will never listen to (I'm not talking about like Emperor and stuff).

Btw Rhianna is fucking HOT.

Also Etema thats pretty interesting I will definately look into it on wikipedia.

 

[Hubster]

The relation of racism with Black Metal is a strong one, and well known by metal fans around.

You might want to continue this discussion in this thread here though, so throw your comments in as the topics are rather parallel.

 

[infoterror]

I've noticed a trend alot of metal heads I've met tend to be somewhat racist

Define racist.

If you mean recognizing the inherited differences between races, then most great thinkers are racist.

Why are you trying to censor what they believe?

 

[biggsy]

If you let him define racist before asking the second question i think it'd work better. Racism isn't just the recognition of inherited differences between races. It is aggressive or derogatory behaviour to or against people of a different race, because you believe their's is an inferior race to your own. In my opinion anyhow.

 

[Hubster]

Define racist.

If you mean recognizing the inherited differences between races, then most great thinkers are racist.

Why are you trying to censor what they believe?

Consider infoterror, that this topic was started by the poster more than likely without the knowledge of NSBM (eg Graveland, Hate Forest) and ethnically proud BM (Enslaved, Darkestrah, Drudkh) in mind. There are many people out there who might fail to see the difference between the two styles and the Nationalism they represent.

 

[Keltoi]

I see more racism in rap music, a pop mainstay in the U.S., than I see in metal of any kind. Of course that sort of racism is tolerated and even encouraged by some segments of the media. All rap isn't racist of course, but much of it indeed is. I think there is more recognition of nationalism and ethnic pride in metal than rock or pop, and black metal is indeed fairly infamous for its "racist" beliefs, by some bands anway. I think extremists just go extreme on everything, and what could be more extreme musically than Emperor or Enslaved?

 

[Hubster]

Drudkh, Darkestrah, Hate Forest... its a big list.

I tend to think that despite public stigmas, serious Black Metal musicians are very intelligent people. Look at the topics expressed in comparison to that of other genres of music - we have history, politics, mythology and so on. These topics require research, study. I guess in a way, you could say that racism in other genres overall is quite primitive and low level. Thus in Black Metal, we can see the difference between NS and non offensive nationalism, we have the education to be able to spot that (I know, I sound elitist).

 

[entanglement]

You find black rap artists saying all kinds of things about the whites in their lyrics, but thats not considered racism because the victim there is the whites, and there is no historical evidence to support the 'white suppression', so its neglected and considered 'retaliation against discrimination' instead of 'discrimination'.. which further induces even more distance between the two races, resulting in a greater degree of racism against the blacks from then on.

 

[The Minds Eye]

If you let him define racist before asking the second question i think it'd work better. Racism isn't just the recognition of inherited differences between races. It is aggressive or derogatory behaviour to or against people of a different race, because you believe their's is an inferior race to your own. In my opinion anyhow.

You hit it right on the head, I'm not trying to censor what anyone believes I just think it's an interesting discussion. I also do realize the difference between Racism and being proud of your ethnicity, hence the point isn't really to discuss black metal at all more why alot of racists seem to be metal fans.

I tend to think that despite public stigmas, serious Black Metal musicians are very intelligent people. Look at the topics expressed in comparison to that of other genres of music - we have history, politics, mythology and so on. These topics require research, study.

I agree, alot of those bands talk about science and alot of interesting theories the average person has no clue about what so ever.

You find black rap artists saying all kinds of things about the whites in their lyrics, but thats not considered racism because the victim there is the whites, and there is no historical evidence to support the 'white suppression', so its neglected and considered 'retaliation against discrimination' instead of 'discrimination'.. which further induces even more distance between the two races, resulting in a greater degree of racism against the blacks from then on

Thats also true it definately goes both ways ,I remember I heard a rap song off the fast and furious soundtrack that had a guy using the line "half black and half motherfucking spit", the fact that that line made it to a mainstream movie soundtrack album is pretty bad.

 

[Norsemaiden]

A lot of skinheads really hate metal heads with long hair (men anyway).
Shaving off ones hair like that disguises one's ethnicity, as one can tell so much about one's genes from one's natural hair type. Women don't fancy a skin head like they do if the man has long hair either. So its quite gay.

 

[Alex78]

boo hoo

 

[Hubster]

You find black rap artists saying all kinds of things about the whites in their lyrics, but thats not considered racism because the victim there is the whites, and there is no historical evidence to support the 'white suppression', so its neglected and considered 'retaliation against discrimination' instead of 'discrimination'.. which further induces even more distance between the two races, resulting in a greater degree of racism against the blacks from then on.

Thats a good point actually.

I did notice something positive with regards to racism (or what I percieved as) from companies like Telstra and Qantas here in Australia: slowly but surely their advertising campaigns have changed from featuring "blondes only" to Asian, Indian, indigenous people and so on. I think its a great move.

 

[Europa Ascendent]

Metal has dealt from the very beginning with thematic concerns that spring out of the Romantic tradition: Will to Power, the heroic-life-as-meaningful-life, a holistic reverence for life that understands death as part of living, a near-worship of nature, the use of the iconography of the North, occultism, disdain of Judeo-Chrisitiany etc. It's a way of seeing the relationship between the self and the universe that has ethnoculturalism as a natural corrolary.

 

[infoterror]

I did notice something positive with regards to racism (or what I percieved as) from companies like Telstra and Qantas here in Australia: slowly but surely their advertising campaigns have changed from featuring "blondes only" to Asian, Indian, indigenous people and so on. I think its a great move.

That way every place on earth can be 100% alike.

A giant mall.

 

[infoterror]

If you let him define racist before asking the second question i think it'd work better. Racism isn't just the recognition of inherited differences between races. It is aggressive or derogatory behaviour to or against people of a different race, because you believe their's is an inferior race to your own. In my opinion anyhow.

Its detractors generally don't make that distinction, and his post was... censorious. I think I acted correctly.

 

[hibernal_dream]

That way every place on earth can be 100% alike.

Only if you consider appearances/racial traits as that important in today's society. The differences between people within races is just as great, if not greater, than the differences between races as a whole. Australia and New Zealand for example have almost the same racial composition yet they are nowhere near "alike"