The relation between Racism and Metal

hibernal_dream said:
Only if you consider appearances/racial traits as that important in today's society. The differences between people within races is just as great, if not greater, than the differences between races as a whole.

This is one of those little factoids that liberals like to toss around because it sounds profound without actually being statistically meaningful.

What does it actually mean? Only that the difference between the average of two groups is less than the difference between two individuals, which should be painfully obvious to anyone with a brain.


Australia and New Zealand for example have almost the same racial composition yet they are nowhere near "alike"

They speak the same language, have the same political, cultural and economic institutions, share the same worldview and social organization - what more do you want, the same accent?
 
Europa Ascendent said:
This is one of those little factoids that liberals like to toss around because it sounds profound without actually being statistically meaningful.

What does it actually mean? Only that the difference between the average of two groups is less than the difference between two individuals, which should be painfully obvious to anyone with a brain.

Yes....so what's your point? I was simply responding to the posts here which seem to suggest that people's choices or values are dictated solely by their race, a notion which I find absolutely ridiculous. And I think you'll find that despite Aust and NZ being recent former British colonies (which alone explains the similar institutions and language) the differences in policy and values which have evolved in under two centuries reject such a notion. But lets be direct here - Do you really believe an even spread of racial traits across the world will result in an homogenous, mall-like group of countries? And if so, this is bad because.....?
 
I've never really encountered a racist, it's not a big problem here.

some people hate common behavior of immigrants (like bad driving/disrespectful behavior), some people are indoctrinated about 'muslims' since the whole 9-11 thing (mainly the older people sadly), but most aren't truely racist or treating people any worse.

I've never seen much connection between music and beliefs/behavior, except that emotional people tend to like that squealy indie stuff, and teens tend to like anything that gets their swagger on (e.g. the pop-metal bands and club-rap music)
 
They speak the same language, have the same political, cultural and economic institutions, share the same worldview and social organization - what more do you want, the same accent?

don't forget the UK, and US, and Canada.

I think most people would say the countries in this general postmodern English world are alike.

while, as a NZer, I dislike this that and the next thing about the UK and Australia, it's about the same as being in NY and hating Texan or Cali culture.
 
Thats also true it definately goes both ways ,I remember I heard a rap song off the fast and furious soundtrack that had a guy using the line "half black and half motherfucking spit", the fact that that line made it to a mainstream movie soundtrack album is pretty bad.

well, to be exact he said
"On weekends with the Ricans cause nigga I fit
You see I'm half fucking black and motherfucking spik"

and shit, if I can't call myself a cracker without being called racist then fuck knows whassup
 
if I can't call myself a cracker without being called racist

You can do that. You can even call another white person cracker, or cracka, and listen to music by niggas. But suggest that the ethnic groups of earth are each better off with their own space, and you'll go to jail in many nations.
 
This is something which has both interested me for quite a long time and somewhat bothered me also, I've noticed a trend alot of metal heads I've met tend to be somewhat racist and alot of Stormfront.org members (world biggest white supremcist forum) state they listen to metal. Which for me is really dissapointing

First, why do their choices bother you? They've got the goddamn freedom to be racist if they want to.

Second, metal also correlates highly to other things, for example programming computers and liking nature.

I would suggest metalheads are Romantics (classical definition) and that part of that is nationalism in the Nietszchean concept.

Further, I'd suggest that metal is music that suggests reality is real and we have to act on it because death is always present, and that attracts people who are not so neurotic they cannot stand up for nationalism.

You will probably not understand as you are of a mixed-racial background (Jew, Scandi, Welsh).

Nationalism remains one of the least understood political systems on earth. As the system that historically succeeded it, the nation-state, shows its longterm instability as evidenced by global climate change, pollution, continuing war, lack of culture and internal decay, more people are exploring other forms of government including nationalism. This website is a non-biased resource for the study of nationalism and the reasons people elect to reject "modern society" (liberal democracy, the political/economic nation-state, capitalism, multiculturalism) and select a type of government that according to its adherents has been appropriate in every age and forever will be.

Pan-Nationalism
 
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I do believe there's racism in some metal sub-genres (especially NSBM), but as someone pointed also in rap, and I bet also in country, pop, and even jazz since all music is done by HUMANS and humans tend to be nice things like racists, xenophobic, warmongers, murderers, rapists and so on.

So basically if you have a rotten apple that doesn't mean the whole barrel is rotten, still you have rotten apples.

Me? I listen to metal, stay away from extremism and support inteligent democracy (where extremists are executed because for sure they will execute me if they rule, so I don't see why to have leniency with them in democracy)
 
Dear The Mind’s Eye,

Thank you for posing a fascinating question. As this board’s most outspoken resident pro-white racial patriot I must answer you. As one who is self-consciously Racially Correct, I am not concerned with your ancestry, only your ideas. So, here it is, straight from the horse’s mouth, so to speak:

Metal is hate music. Its fundamental emotion is joyful hate, counterpointing melancholy. In order to experience hate you must first have joy that is under attack. That is why people get into Metal when they reach adolescence and only rarely before – at adolescence a person discovers the possibility of a higher kind of love – romanos or romantic love – including the implication of the element it contains, namely the characteristically human love, Agape or love of Reason, without which we are mere animals. The emotion of sensing the approach of love is called joy.

In an insane society like the one we live in, that does its best to stamp out that joy of being human, and, thus, of ever being able to Romantically connect with another person on a human level (not merely on a high-functioning animal level), the sensitive but strong soul refuses to submit, and instead the pressure upon him creates a feeling of righteousness that causes joy to re-express itself in a manner that we call hatred.

Metal is, thus, a very positive and optimistic form of anticlassical music! Indeed, as I write in my essay Why Heavy Metal is poetically superior to Rap music, Metal is the metaphorical “key to the kingdom of heaven” in terms of reconciling the higher and lower parts of one’s soul in order to become a sexuo-politically potent human being. The promise of Metal – its hope of joy fulfilled – is certainly fulfillable, for those who refuse to be satisfied with the world as it is.

Pro-white musicians have latched onto this hope. They, too, hate, not for the sake of hating, but because they, correctly, perceive that a major source of joy – racial identity and all it entails – is under attack. The thoughtless ones despair of solutions, and their hatred becomes malice, something truly anti-human as they turn their hatred on people, on buildings, and on themselves, to no good end. The thoughtful ones, like myself, realise that people and buildings aren’t the problem, I am the problem because I haven’t gained sufficient knowledge in order to affect society in a manner which will fulfill my goals without the need to dehumanise anyone.

The words used to describe the pro-white movement are often what get in the way. “White supremacist” refers to someone who supports imperialism, slavery, and genocide, and these things are simply not welcome on a nice site like Stormfront. “White Power” is a meaningless phrase intended to conflate with White Supremacist. I am pro-white because I love my race and will do anything in my power to prevent it from being extinguished by history. That makes me a racial patriot just as blacks can be patriots of their race, Jews can be patriots of their race, and so on. The idea that races have a right to exist and are all equally human is called racialism.

“Racism” is a word used by Politically Correct people so they can look down on anything white, heterosexual men say, think, or do. I refuse to apply it myself, to others, or to let its use go unchallenged.

Well, there’s your explanation. I hope you understand that there’s nothing incompatible between being pro-white and being a Metalhead. Both are products of white warrior culture and it’s natural they would overlap. But, since Metal is worldwide, even if you, for instance, primarily define yourself as Jewish, you would be missing the point to think that because it’s a white musical form it has no relevance to you - if you’re into it, that’s saying something about your soul, and the more you “get it,” the more power to you!

In good faith,

Narziss
 
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I am pro-white because I love my race and will do anything in my power to prevent it from being extinguished by history. That makes me a racial patriot just as blacks can be patriots of their race, Jews can be patriots of their race, and so on. The idea that races have a right to exist and are all equally human is called racialism.

I don't really understand what justification there may be for loving one's race over other races. I also don't understand it in the case of nations (loving one's nation over other nations), but in the case of race things seems even worse.
Saying something like "I love these people more than those because I have the same skin color as these" does have a ludicruous ring to it. People sharing skin color don't even need to share a culture, unless culture is understood in an excessively broad sense. So even if one had a justification for loving people one shares a culture with over people one does not share a culture with (which is really doubtful in any case), that would not help justifying loving one's race over others.
 
Metal is hate music. Its fundamental emotion is joyful hate, counterpointing melancholy. In order to experience hate you must first have joy that is under attack. That is why people get into Metal when they reach adolescence and only rarely before
lol, that explains metalcore.

Agape or love of Reason, without which we are mere animals.
actually, agape is a Greek word meaning love of 'humanity.' Caritas in Latin. but all the same, we are 'mere animals,' and I'm not sure why you think love of anything is the one differentiating feature when most people see self-consciousness and such things as more likely candidates.

he emotion of sensing the approach of love is called joy.
I think a lot of us would disagree with that.

Dear The Mind’s Eye,
In an insane society like the one we live in, that does its best to stamp out that joy of being human..
what's insane about it?
what is the joy of being human?
and what does it do to stamp that out intentionally?

a major source of joy – racial identity and all it entails – is under attack.
what about being white makes you happy? Should a halfbreed not find happiness in his racial identity as you do in yours? if he should, then what have you to fear by mixing things up?


“Racism” is a word used by Politically Correct people so they can look down on anything white, heterosexual men say, think, or do.
lol, so if a black woman says 'peckawood cracka ass eurotrash...blahblahblah' I can't say she's racist, because she's not a white male saying it?

what a useful distortion of a word that is lol
 
I don't really understand what justification there may be for loving one's race over other races. I also don't understand it in the case of nations (loving one's nation over other nations), but in the case of race things seems even worse.

Why does he need any justificaiton? Identifying with ones own race and ones own country is as important and natural as the need to know and assert who you are as an individual by what genre of music or movie you prefer etc. Whether or not you "understand" this need on an intellectual level is unimportant, you participate in the same sort of group thinking each and everyday and as far as I'm concerned, it's beyond the need for intellectual justification.
 
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I am pro-white because I love my race and will do anything in my power to prevent it from being extinguished by history. That makes me a racial patriot just as blacks can be patriots of their race, Jews can be patriots of their race, and so on.
Jews and Arabs (Semites) are generally considered to be part of the white race.
 
There is nothing morally or culturally significant one shares with members of one's race (simply in virtue of the fact that they are of the same race) that one doesn't share with the rest of the people in the world. It does not appear natural to identify more with certain people than others on the basis of the skin color, which is a completely arbitrary characteristic from a moral or cultural perspective.
 
There is nothing morally or culturally significant one shares with members of one's race (simply in virtue of the fact that they are of the same race) that one doesn't share with the rest of the people in the world. It does not appear natural to identify more with certain people than others on the basis of the skin color, which is a completely arbitrary characteristic from a moral or cultural perspective.

You sort of built a strawman here whether you're aware of it or not. The question was whether it is "natural for one to identify with a race or country" and not one involving categories of group identification. Whether or not you personally consider a certain groups culture and mores insignificant (or culture and mores in general insignificant because they're arbitrary) is actually (1) irrelavant to this topic, and (2) somewhat ego-centric. Again, we're not wondering about the usefulness of group specifics but whether or not being in (and identifying with) a group (albeit race, country, gender, or golf club) is (1) at all natural, and (2) of any real benefit.

Looking to nature you see that grouping occurs in one of two different ways. The first is more abstract, having to do with parts grouping to form larger parts and so on (ie., twings->branches->trees). In the same way, humans group to form interconnected societies to form interconnected civilizations; we're all pretty interdependant to an extent that it's hard to completely distinguish a part separate from the whole. The second has to do directly with the animal and not necessarily a hierarchical relationship; birds flock with birds, dogs with other dogs forming packs. From this you can derive a whole number of benefits relating to (1) mating: if you're a dog, you need another dog to procreate and also, it doesn't hurt to have them within a certain proximity and (2) security and defense: we often identify a threat as one who does not fit the description or behaviour of the pack and we fight together when we need to maximize our strength for food etc, and these are among the main ones I can think of. More specific to the human animal, it's very much the same except there are more (3) psychologically based considerations, especially today (ie., gender etc ..all at least relating to self-esteem) that you have to also consider. Thus, there are genetic, environmental and psychological benefits to identifying with ones own group all relating to survival in some fashion, which puts it in the realm of nature and something innate in our species, aside from being an approach that's extremely prevalent in nature.

Lastly, I'll throw in that wars are fought for many reasons, among which is a sense of patriotism to ones country, ones group and religion, and identifying with something greater not because it makes sense necessarily, but because it's natural to humans and animals, and something we're hardcoded to do. As far as racism goes, it would not have even come about if it were somehow unnatural to identify with ones own race by ones own characters and history. Skin-colour, aswell as other superficial characteristics, are only a factor so much as they are a symbolic pointer to the group; it itself has no bearing like a flag, which is only a piece of cloth, though in itself a symbol of something much greater.
 
There is nothing morally or culturally significant one shares with members of one's race (simply in virtue of the fact that they are of the same race) that one doesn't share with the rest of the people in the world. It does not appear natural to identify more with certain people than others on the basis of the skin color, which is a completely arbitrary characteristic from a moral or cultural perspective.

Would you also propound this theory in regard to Blacks, Asians, Mestizos, etc? This news would, no doubt, be very distressing to the various "communities" who now so completely self-identify by race that they often scoff at any national affiliation at all - embracing only a racial bond with their own. American Blacks certainly would not countenance this "skin-color" as an "arbitrary characteristic" argument for a minute. The very foundation of African-American culture and all it entails is explicitly racial - is this then also distasteful and unnatural?
 
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