The thread where you talk about non-metal music you like.

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Oh, no doubt. But The Stooges debut? It was like a nuke on D.C. for the late 60's. Funhouse and Raw Power went even further (albeit those two were released in the 70's). They were basically the establishment's worst nightmare. A furious, angry, flagrantly sexual and violent bunch of delinquents playing some of the rawest, loudest guitar driven music ever. And Iggy is the ultimate rock and roll wildman with the exception of G.G. Allin. Aside from G.G.? No fucking contest.

 

[no country for old wainds]

the stooges were one of the most ahead of their time bands in history in my opinion, the s/t is utterly ridiculous for '69, songs like 'i wanna be your dog' virtually sound like proto-discharge or something. i think of high tide as being one of the 'wildest' of the '60s though.

 

[CiG]

The way you're both talking about The Stooges is how I think about The MC5.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

The MC5 were the only thing during that time that even came close to The Stooges. Likely because they both came out of that same, wild Detroit rock scene that also produced Ted Nugent and Mitch Ryder. The thing is though, the MC5, although very raw and powerful, they didn't produce the air of violent nihilism and almost sensual rawness and danger that The Stooges conveyed in practically every power chord. They were too classy by comparison, with the bedazzled jackets and all. Iggy Pop prowled the stage half or more naked, confronting the audience face to face, inventing crowd surfing and stage diving, wiggling and convulsing like a mentally unstable James Brown on mescalin, jabbing pencils and other sharp objects directly into his forearm while talk-shouting and screeching like a banshee from hell about casual destruction and getting laid over head-explodingly raucous guitar riffs.

 

[CiG]

Members of the MC5 were literally on FBI lists because they were members of the Black Panther Party. Compared to that, Iggy smearing his body with peanut-butter is child's play. Don't get me wrong, I love The Stooges.

Also, The MC5 were way older than The Stooges and actually were considered the older brother band to them.

"Kick out the jams motherfuckers!"

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

They were actually members of the White Panther Party, which was basically the Black Panthers for people who were white and wanted to help the cause. John Lennon was also under FBI watch, so I wouldn't exactly use that as a credential for how crazy they were. I'm well aware that the MC5 significantly preceded The Stooges, I was just referring to the fact that it was the same music scene that generated them both. And, yes, "kick out the jams motherfuckers" is the most badass intro line to a song ever. Rob Tyner was something else... "I-I-I-I-I, I WANNA KICK 'EM OUT!" *Wayne and Fred destroy the planet with their riffing*.

 

[CiG]

Well actually they were Black Panthers first, until it was suggested by a prominent Black Panther that John Sinclair should start the White Panthers.

Did you ever give much thought to the second meaning to that lyric?

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

About it being a cry for revolution against societal strictures? Or kicking the goofballs off stage? Whichever it was, whether it was a battle cry for revolution or a call for rocking out to some good tunes, or something else, neither would surprise me either way given the band's nature. So, no, I've never paid much mind to thinking about potential alternate meanings.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Having had opportunities to see both in a live context, I'd claim The Stooges to be a wilder band. When the MC5 took the stage, I thought my head was gonna explode from the noise. When The Stooges took the stage? I felt my head exploding and feared for my life because of Iggy.

 

[CiG]

Well, this is only my own theory, but after watching so many blaxploitation films, I've come to the conclusion that it's a double meaning against politicians. Kick out the jive ass mothers! Kick the jive ass mothers out of government.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

That's a cool theory, I have to say it's the first time I've heard that one. Good thinking.

 

[CiG]

Thanks, I drink too often. I respect your opinion on The Stooges by the way, after all it's subjective anyway and it's good that "heavy" hasn't got an objective meaning in music, I think it's more than just sonic.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

No problem, it's an interesting one though. Far more interesting than all those generic, unimaginative suggestions rock journalists have thrown at it. Very much the product of too many beers as you've said though. Thanks, you make a great case for the MC5 yourself. As you said, it's all subjective, and it's always cool to hear people's concept of what's truly heavy. Unless they think Line 6 is heavier than Marshall. Then they should just kill themselves.

 

[CiG]

Unless they think Line 6 is heavier than Marshall. Then they should just kill themselves.

Ha!

What do you think of Blue Cheer?

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Blue Cheer kicks ass. Vincebus Eruptum was utterly glorious in its heaviness for '68. Their other stuff is great too, Outsideinside particularly. Best version of Summertime Blues too, beating the epic Eddie Cochran original and The Who's version by just a cunt hair.

 

[CiG]

I absolutely used to worship Outsideinside, thought it crushed Vincebus Eruptum personally. These days I'm much more into Leigh Stephen's solo record Red Weather that he made after he left Blue Cheer. It's brilliant.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Leigh Stephen was already a guitar genius for his work with BC, but his solo stuff proved he had staying power outside the band, great stuff. I must say I prefer Vincebus to Outsideinside, but it's a close one if you ask me. If you want uber heavy, all-out psychedelic destruction, put in Vincebus. If you want a more even, melodic effort, put in Outsideinside.

 

[CiG]

Outsideinside fucked my head up way more at the time, I think it was due to the varying degrees of heaviness going on, in comparison Vincebus Eruptum almost felt like a gimmick. Not that I don't like the album, but it was pretty over the top. I can never listen to Eddie Cochran the same way again!

I can only imagine the reaction at the time of it's release.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

I guess I've always enjoyed more over the top stuff. It's likely the reason I worship 80's action flicks despite their gimmicky insanity, and also why KISS, AC/DC, Ted Nugent, and other likeminded groups rank among my favorite bands.

 

[CiG]

Oh I'm right there with you on all of that. Arnold Schwarzenegger is my all time favourite actor!