why do black metallers hate modern Black metal?

[Scourge of God]

this band is on the same case that the others that you've said

So? The whole style sucks, and Bal Sagoth are a particularly boring expression of it...

 

[Vitor]

Regarding Bal-Sagoth:



Yeah, sorry but for me this is also true...other than their mile long song/album names. I really disliked their clinical, pompus approach. uke:

dude, i'm not saying that i like this band, but this band is on the same case of Dimmu Borgir, Gehenna and Cradle of Filth... bands from Cacophonous Records

 

[Zephyrus]

The alterations from a more 'traditional' black metal approach that Emperor undertook with Anthems... - more rocklike song structures, more conventional production values and pushing the keyboards to the front of the mix - were all elements that had previously appeared in the work of others, chiefly Cradle of Filth, Dimmu Borgir and Gehenna. Far from being pioneers of the style, the were relative latecomers to the party

July of 1997...

BurningWitch spoke for CoF, so I'll speak for Dimmu Borgir. For All Tid and Stormblast were released before Anthems, yes, but those two albums were hardly innovative as they still contained the basic elements of traditional black metal, which were basic song structures and instrumentation plus minimalist production values. The only difference was that keyboards played a role.

Anthems pushed the boundaries far further than anything put out by Dimmu Borgir before Anthems' release. Enthrone Darkness Triumphant showed a boundary push with its production, but this was done a year after Anthems was recorded.

 

[Vitor]

BurningWitch spoke for CoF, so I'll speak for Dimmu Borgir. For All Tid and Stormblast were released before Anthems, yes, but those two albums were hardly innovative as they still contained the basic elements of traditional black metal, which were basic song structures and instrumentation plus minimalist production values. The only difference was that keyboards played a role.

Anthems pushed the boundaries far further than anything put out by Dimmu Borgir before Anthems' release. Enthrone Darkness Triumphant showed a boundary push with its production, but this was done a year after Anthems was recorded.

yeah... i believe that Stormblast was influenced by In the Nightside Eclipse and Under The Sign Of the Black Mark

 

[Scourge of God]

BurningWitch spoke for CoF, so I'll speak for Dimmu Borgir. For All Tid and Stormblast were released before Anthems, yes, but those two albums were hardly innovative as they still contained the basic elements of traditional black metal, which were basic song structures and instrumentation plus minimalist production values. The only difference was that keyboards played a role.

Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk isn't anymore 'black metal' than Dusk and Her Embrace (note even the convergence of album titles), nor is its production any glossier than that of Stormblast or Cradle or Gehenna (and certainly not more so than Enthrone Darkness Triumphant, which was ALSO released before it). Structurally, all of those albums (including Anthems...) rely on verse/chorus rock structures that are considerably more 'basic' in an absolute sense than classically derived narrative structures typical of Burzum, Immortal, early Enslaved, DarkThrone, and, yes, the previous Emperor material. Far from representing a historic (and heroic) break with an unimaginative black metal scene, Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk was Emperor's attempt to cash in on an already established trend, a trend characterized by replacing the more adventurous and extreme elements of second wave black metal with the more comfortably familiar hallmarks of rock composition.

 

[Zephyrus]

Sorry, but Anthems is far less accessible than Nightside. I wouldn't say they were cashing in on things that Dimmu Borgir was doing with EDT, which is instantly accessible. Anthems took several listens before I could appreciate it and its effect on me still lasts and lasts.

 

[Zephyrus]

It's more complex, plus the production isn't as clean as one may lead you to believe. It took me a while before I could appreciate the product for its hidden complexities and how it all meshed into a quintessential art form.

 

[Hell Mike]

Pure Holocaust isn't that raw..... you can clearly hear everything..... there are bands much more rawer.... like Darkspace.

You're ALWAYS supposed to be able to hear everything, otherwise it wouldn't be there. If you can't, that's bad, not raw.

 

[Scourge of God]

Sorry, but Anthems is far less accessible than Nightside.

By what measure? The music is structurally far simpler, and the melodies are much easier to pick out. The production is vastly cleaner, and the keys are both more conventional in their application and pulled farther up in the mix. The music is much more familiar to non-black metal fans in its basic sound, production values and compositional approach. It's less adventurous and more conventional in every single way than the band's earlier efforts.

 

[Scourge of God]

You're ALWAYS supposed to be able to hear everything, otherwise it wouldn't be there. If you can't, that's bad, not raw.

Which is why the 'raw' production of say Darkthrone beats the hell out of modern digital production from a qualitative standpoint.

 

[Hell Awaits Us All]

I haven't heard any black metal with modern "digital" polished production outside of crappy pop metal like dummy burger, so which bands are you referring to?

 

[Scourge of God]

I haven't heard any black metal with modern "digital" polished production outside of crappy pop metal like dummy burger, so which bands are you referring to?

I'm thinking of modern metal in general. The n00bs constantly bitch about the production style of a lot of classic black metal, but all the instruments are clearly audible in the mix, which is more than you can say about recent Enslaved or, for that matter, Nile or current vintage Behemoth.

 

[Hell Awaits Us All]

I'm thinking of modern metal in general. The n00bs constantly bitch about the production style of a lot of classic black metal, but all the instruments are clearly audible in the mix, which is more than you can say about recent Enslaved or, for that matter, Nile or current vintage Behemoth.

perfect black metal production = det som engang var
perfect death metal production = morbid angel "covenant"

I never quite understood why nile's production is not more clear, is it the massive amount of distortion/detuning?

 

[Scourge of God]

perfect black metal production = det som engang var
perfect death metal production = morbid angel "covenant"

I never quite understood why nile's production is not more clear, is it the massive amount of distortion/detuning?

It's because their discs invariably are too fucking hot. They sacrifice range and clarity of sound for volume. That's true of most contemporary albums, metal or otherwise.

 

[Lyle]

ibecuase barring like 4 bands all recent black metal sucks nutz and the recent hipster/aquarius crowd interest in it is stupid

but also anyone who actively identifies as a "blackmetaler" is human detritus

 

[Rabid Headbanger]

I haven't heard any black metal with modern "digital" polished production outside of crappy pop metal like dummy burger, so which bands are you referring to?

Dimmu Borgir aren't actually that bad.

And I read in an article the frontman clearly stated they weren't "true" and they weren't try to be and they don't care.

 

[Vossyrus]

In other words Dimmu Borgir are doing exactly what they want to do and making music in the style that they want to. How is that bad?
Why would anyone want to listen to a band that gives in to the people's criticism and serves just to please them? I'd rather listen to band that does their own thing over a band that tries to play "true" black metal for the sake of doing so.

The asinine remarks about them being sellouts over change of musical direction is just ironic, because even if the band decided to play true black metal, they would in fact be sellouts because they'd be compromising their sound to please the general black metal fan base

 

[~Derek~]

Covenant has a muddy type feel to its production. You can hear everything in the mix though.

 

[Cythraul]

By what measure? The music is structurally far simpler, and the melodies are much easier to pick out. The production is vastly cleaner, and the keys are both more conventional in their application and pulled farther up in the mix. The music is much more familiar to non-black metal fans in its basic sound, production values and compositional approach. It's less adventurous and more conventional in every single way than the band's earlier efforts.

indeed

 

[Manic Ferocity]

I liked the first three songs off Anthems. The rest bored me.

I could never really get into that album for some reason.