slipknot?

[TylerTheNuke]

Haha, neurotic obviously dominated this one. If anyone wants to hear my 2c, slipknot are not pure metal, but they are enough so to call them metal. I mean, what is pure metal anyways? Lots of bands considered pure metal are completly different. Take Judas priest and metallica as an example of that. I think that in order to be metal, you have to have a certain essence to your sound. I don't think it can be defined. Lots of barriers are being broken down and the definition of metal keeps changing. I think that it has something more to do with the overall effect then specific elements. I mean, like neurotic said, how is meshuggah metal if you are defining metal by its elements. Lots of other bands are in the same predicament.

 

[Satanstoenail]

Gorod: Try taking your head out of your arse for just a minute. You might actually see that there are people on this forum that know a thing or two about music. So far everyone is disagreeing with you, and your "argument" has been completely torn apart several times by several different people, but still you wont back down. Your self righteous, patronizing "You guys don't know shit about metal" attitude is extremely grating, especially considering how new you are. In ten posts you've so far only proved that you're completely closed minded and ignorant. I dunno how old you are, but you have much to learn.

 

[Gorod]

i was not wrong, spiral architect is a tech(or technical if you will) metal band, very influenced by prog metal but they took it to another level, so no i'm not wrong.

tell me one meshuggah song that has blastbeats(war on rare trax doesn't count), tremolo picking,etc.
you obviously don't know shit about death metal, meshuggah has nothing in common with morbid angel, cynic, death, carcass, at the gates, necrophagist, nile etc etc
fuck, you gotta be insane man. did you ever even listen to meshuggah.

i mean, at least go to metal archives and do a little research, is not the bible, but most who don't know about metal at least can get the info there so they might seem like they know what they are talking about.

and yes there is a genre called industrial, like metal incorporates a lot of different subgenres. listen to skinny puppy for instance.

and no need to get offensive. that just shows your lack of arguments.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_242http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinny_Puppyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_Line_Assembly

Yes, you are wrong. If someone is technical, it doesn't make them tech metal.

There should be tremolo picking even in Catch33. I cannot verify this for I don't have the album, but you surely can. And blast beats shoulds be on I. No, I haven't heard much from them, but enough to want that time back. Very uninteresting music.

Haha, metal-archives... it sure as hell isn't bible, there is infact a lot of bullshit there.

No, there is no genre "industrial" in metal. Industrial metal is a different story.

My lack of arguments? Excuse me, but wasn't it you who just jumped on to argue only about Meshuggah's genre when you noticed your lack of knowledge ... yes it was you, retard.

Satanstoenail: Seems to me to be the opposite. Most of the time people decide to stick with people they know, than to agree with the new guy. You're not any different.

Ah, show me the parts where my argument has been torn apart. Seems to me to be the opposite.

The fact that I'm new on a forum doesn't mean I'm new to metal. I'll bet that I've with this music far longer than you have, kid.

 

[Neurotic]

industrial metal = industrial + metal, i think that was pretty clear. there is lots of industrial metal bands, but i guess in your "book" they are not metal.ahah they just happen to have metal in the label...a coicidence.

Spiral Architect is tech metal, just ask the guys, you got a forum here to do so. or just read some topics there, they explain pretty well why they are tech and whats tech metal.

blastbeats on i? you can go listen to it all you want, no fucking blastbeats at all. fast drumming does not equal blastbeats, you should know it. go listen to it.

actually the "melody theme" behind the riffs in catch 33(in most meshuggah albuns they use those "melodies" behind the riffs, standard meshuggah) is played tremolo yes, but in a very diferrent fashion from death metal. it's just a way of sustaining the notes longer and doing that mesmorizing hipnotic feel, that "crazy" ambience, not death metal at all.

many solos have tremolo, classical music,jazz has lots of tremolos like any genre can have them (even pop), that is not the point, the point was the tremolo picking cliche in death metal(i guess you didn't get that, do i need to draw something?), fast melodies played tremolo style like vader, morbid angel for instance. meshuggah does not, or ever used such a thing. meshuggah has never had any elements of death metal in their sound, you can read interviews with the band, search all you want, there will not be one person in the world that would say to you they are death metal (just that ozzy kid lol)

slikpnot however when use tremolos , they use it in a death metal way(as a gimmick you might say but they use them), they don't use it often thats true, but again just an example, i didn't say they were death metal, i said metal.

i just pointed out meshuggah as an example, you said they were death metal, and that was hilarious, of course i had to say something about it.
you still haven't explain me why meshuggah is metal and slipknot isn't, nor you have explained me what makes a band metal, cuz i don't get you concept and many here seem to not get it either.

like TylerTheNuke said, slipknot definetely is not purely metal, but many bands nowdays aren't but are metal enough to be called metal.
things got to involve, we can't all be playing like iron maiden to be pure metal.

you have said that black sabbath, pantera are hardly metal, man your metal definition is pretty strict. if those palm muted riffs, the use of that diminished fifth(like in the song black sabbath which is fucking evil) are not metal what the fuck is for christ sake?....

and no one is sticking with me because they know me, i don't know anyone in this forum, i don't post here that often, actually i am now. go figure.

 

[Gorod]

industrial metal = industrial + metal, i think that was pretty clear. there is lots of industrial metal bands, but i guess in your "book" they are not metal.ahah they just happen to have metal in the label...a coicidence.

Spiral Architect is tech metal, just ask the guys, you got a forum here to do so. or just read some topics there, they explain pretty well why they are tech and whats tech metal.

blastbeats on i? you can go listen to it all you want, no fucking blastbeats at all. fast drumming does not equal blastbeats, you should know it. go listen to it.

actually the "melody theme" behind the riffs in catch 33(in most meshuggah albuns they use those "melodies" behind the riffs, standard meshuggah) is played tremolo yes, but in a very diferrent fashion from death metal. it's just a way of sustaining the notes longer and doing that mesmorizing hipnotic feel, that "crazy" ambience, not death metal at all.

many solos have tremolo, classical music,jazz has lots of tremolos like any genre can have them (even pop), that is not the point, the point was the tremolo picking cliche in death metal(i guess you didn't get that, do i need to draw something?), fast melodies played tremolo style like vader, morbid angel for instance. meshuggah does not, or ever used such a thing. meshuggah has never had any elements of death metal in their sound, you can read interviews with the band, search all you want, there will not be one person in the world that would say to you they are death metal (just that ozzy kid lol)

slikpnot however when use tremolos , they use it in a death metal way(as a gimmick you might say but they use them), they don't use it often thats true, but again just an example, i didn't say they were death metal, i said metal.

i just pointed out meshuggah as an example, you said they were death metal, and that was hilarious, of course i had to say something about it.
you still haven't explain me why meshuggah is metal and slipknot isn't, nor you have explained me what makes a band metal, cuz i don't get you concept and many here seem to not get it either.

like TylerTheNuke said, slipknot definetely is not purely metal, but many bands nowdays aren't but are metal enough to be called metal.
things got to involve, we can't all be playing like iron maiden to be pure metal.

you have said that black sabbath, pantera are hardly metal, man your metal definition is pretty strict. if those palm muted riffs, the use of that diminished fifth(like in the song black sabbath which is fucking evil) are not metal what the fuck is for christ sake?....

and no one is sticking with me because they know me, i don't know anyone in this forum, i don't post here that often, actually i am now. go figure.

How stupid are you, seriously? There is industrial metal, yes, I never denied it.

No, they're not. The fact that someone says so doesn't make it true.

I don't have the CD and I don't plan to buy it so that's easier said than done.

Haha, shows how much bullshit you talk, and how you know nothing: "no tremolo picking there" "ok, yes there is"... just showing how stupid it is to claim something based on one thing.

Yes, you have to be more specific. Do you think that I can read minds here?

No, Slipknot still aren't metal.

Nope, I didn't say that Meshuggah is death metal. There is a clear difference between prog death and death. But I doubt you even know a one prog death band. Why do I need to prove anything? It's your job to prove that Slipknot are metal. You've so far failed to do so.

Is Limp Bizkit metal?

Of course Black Sabbath was metal for a long time, but their latest albums hardly are. Same goes for Pantera pretty much.

 

[Neurotic]

no i wouldn't call limp bizkit metal. there is a huge leap from limp bizkit to slikpnot. slipknot does play metal riffs, limp bizkit hardly.

listen to slipknot's song "sic" for instance, heavy riffs, double bass, screams (even some growls in the end), the chorus is a death metal riff with tremolo picking, it's a short riff, but it's there, the song is heavy from beginning to end. the riffs could be in any metal band really. no soft vocals, no rapping, nothing. it doesn't have solos but again lots of metal bands don't use them, like many black metal bands for instance.

limp bizkit is very different from this, lots of rapping, pop chorus, ocasional guitar riffs doesn't make a band metal.
a band to be metal has to be guitar oriented and limp bizkit is very focused on the vocals like most pop music.

"no tremolo picking there" "ok, yes there is" , well we were talking about death metal, i assumed you knew what i was talking about, it wasn't that hard really since fast tremolo picking melodies is one of the classic death metal caracteristics. tremolo just by itself is a tecnique used in many styles of music. you were the first person i ever "talk" to that didn't get this.

ahah Spiral Architect isn't tech, well everybody says they are but you, so who's wrong? i think Spiral Architect as great musicians that they are, should know what they are doing, but hey, i'm sure you know much more about music than them right?

why is it my job to prove slipknot is metal? you didn't prove they aren't metal. actually you didn't even give one reason why they are not metal.

you just keep saying, this is this, this is that, but give no reasons.

prog death metal is still death metal just with a progressive vein. thus having death metal in the label. so no , meshuggah is far from prog death metal. actually i doubt you even know what progressive stands for.
augury is an example of a prog death metal.

why aren't Pantera's late albuns metal? tell me this.

 

[Gorod]

no i wouldn't call limp bizkit metal. there is a huge leap from limp bizkit to slikpnot. slipknot does play metal riffs, limp bizkit hardly.

listen to slipknot's song "sic" for instance, heavy riffs, double bass, screams (even some growls in the end), the chorus is a death metal riff with tremolo picking, it's a short riff, but it's there, the song is heavy from beginning to end. the riffs could be in any metal band really. no soft vocals, no rapping, nothing. it doesn't have solos but again lots of metal bands don't use them, like many black metal bands for instance.

limp bizkit is very different from this, lots of rapping, pop chorus, ocasional guitar riffs doesn't make a band metal.
a band to be metal has to be guitar oriented and limp bizkit is very focused on the vocals like most pop music.

"no tremolo picking there" "ok, yes there is" , well we were talking about death metal, i assumed you knew what i was talking about, it wasn't that hard really since fast tremolo picking melodies is one of the classic death metal caracteristics. tremolo just by itself is a tecnique used in many styles of music. you were the first person i ever "talk" to that didn't get this.

ahah Spiral Architect isn't tech, well everybody says they are but you, so who's wrong? i think Spiral Architect as great musicians that they are, should know what they are doing, but hey, i'm sure you know much more about music than them right?

why is it my job to prove slipknot is metal? you didn't prove they aren't metal. actually you didn't even give one reason why they are not metal.

you just keep saying, this is this, this is that, but give no reasons.

prog death metal is still death metal just with a progressive vein. thus having death metal in the label. so no , meshuggah is far from prog death metal. actually i doubt you even know what progressive stands for.
augury is an example of a prog death metal.

why aren't Pantera's late albuns metal? tell me this.

But why do you think Slipknot and Limp Bizkit are both nu-metal then? If they're like night and day.

You can have songs that are metal but overall that doesn't mean you are metal.

And I'm sure you've said the exact same words very often.

Many people also say that Britney Spears is greatest singer ever. That doesn't make it true. Oh, you mean like Laiho saying that CoB is some kind of death metal?

Argumentation clearly isn't your strongest point. The one who makes a claim, in this case you saying that Slipknot is metal, has to prove it.

Gothenburg melo death hardly has much in common with plain death metal. And progressive death metal is even broader genre.

I didn't say that they aren't. They are metal but far from what they used to be.

 

[Neurotic]

i never said Cob is death metal , i don't listen to that band.
sure you can have metal songs and not be a metal band (king crimson for instance), but slikpnot first albums were more or less in that vein. like i said before i don't know what their up to this days. they might be playing pop, what i've heard from them had plenty metal in their sound to be called metal.

well i don't even think limp bizkit is nu metal anymore, they were maybe in their first album, now they are rap, hard rock , they went pretty soft. their first album had heavy stuff, it sucked but it had.
actually that last single of limp bizkit that sounded like rage against the machine was them trying to be heavy, i didn't heard the album, but that was a rap/metal song.

like you say, some bands start one way and then go in a different path.

you claim that slikpnot is not metal . so it's the same for you.
there is no law that says slipknot is metal or not. discussing their sound is the way to reach a conclusion.

you claim that meshuggah is prog death metal and you didn't gave me even one reason why you claim that. actually you don't give reasons to anything, you just say they are that way.

well melo death this days maybe not, but early at the gates, entombed, the first sweddish death metal bands were death metal no doubt, melodic but death metal.
of course today in flames and the like are not death metal. they changed a lot.

 

[Seance]

It's your job to prove that Slipknot are metal. You've so far failed to do so.

been proven about 9000 times over by now. thanks for playing. thread over. (and has been for several pages)

 

[Gorod]

i never said Cob is death metal , i don't listen to that band.
sure you can have metal songs and not be a metal band (king crimson for instance), but slikpnot first albums were more or less in that vein. like i said before i don't know what their up to this days. they might be playing pop, what i've heard from them had plenty metal in their sound to be called metal.

well i don't even think limp bizkit is nu metal anymore, they were maybe in their first album, now they are rap, hard rock , they went pretty soft. their first album had heavy stuff, it sucked but it had.
actually that last single of limp bizkit that sounded like rage against the machine was them trying to be heavy, i didn't heard the album, but that was a rap/metal song.

like you say, some bands start one way and then go in a different path.

you claim that slikpnot is not metal . so it's the same for you.
there is no law that says slipknot is metal or not. discussing their sound is the way to reach a conclusion.

you claim that meshuggah is prog death metal and you didn't gave me even one reason why you claim that. actually you don't give reasons to anything, you just say they are that way.

well melo death this days maybe not, but early at the gates, entombed, the first sweddish death metal bands were death metal no doubt, melodic but death metal.
of course today in flames and the like are not death metal. they changed a lot.

Never said you did.

So Limp Bizkit were metal?

No, it's not the same for me. By default Slipknot has no genre, so me claiming that they're not metal is justified as long as you can come up with sufficient proof of them being metal. Just like the age-old god argument, the people deny it's existence don't have to proof anything but the one's who claim one does exist have to bring on the proof.

Just like you then.

I'm not talking about today's metalcore In Flames.

 

[Satanstoenail]

No, it's not the same for me. By default Slipknot has no genre, so me claiming that they're not metal is justified as long as you can come up with sufficient proof of them being metal. Just like the age-old god argument, the people deny it's existence don't have to proof anything but the one's who claim one does exist have to bring on the proof.

Oh my God will you shut up you fucking sub moron. "By default Slipknot has no genre"? What the fuck are you on about? That whole paragraph makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Once again Gorod obliterates everyone with his superior intellect, amazing knowledge and supremely well worded arguments.

 

[Neurotic]

first he says slipknot is nu metal, now it has no genre? ...

funny how he never responds any question.
i'm still waiting to know why meshuggah is prog death metal

 

[Gorod]

first he says slipknot is nu metal, now it has no genre? ...

funny how he never responds any question.
i'm still waiting to know why meshuggah is prog death metal

No band by default has a genre. I think we all have agreed that Slipknot is nu-metal, so there is no need to prove anything about that. But if you're going to claim that they're metal, then you do have to prove it, since a lot of people disagree.

Stupid people.

 

[Gorod]

rofl, jesus christ, you're fucking dumb. once again proving your blatant ignorance. hardly any of the bs you've spewed in this thread thus far has been even remotely on base, your arguments hold no water

it's clear that nobody needs to speak to you again

lmfao @ you saying "-core" genres aren't metal. you have much to learn, noob. you clearly don't know shit about metal or anything related to music

Oh, so core genres are metal?

 

[Neurotic]

No band by default has a genre. I think we all have agreed that Slipknot is nu-metal, so there is no need to prove anything about that. But if you're going to claim that they're metal, then you do have to prove it, since a lot of people disagree.

Stupid people.

the question is, is nu-metal a subgenre of metal? like you said, we all agree slipknot is nu metal, that's not the question. many say nu metal is a subgenre of metal, many say it isn't, so don't say i am the one who was to prove anything, is equal for both sides.

you still not aswering my question about meshuggah, why? because you can't. you don't know shit about music.

and of course, the cliche when there's no arguments, call the other people stupid. how cool is that?

 

[Gorod]

the question is, is nu-metal a subgenre of metal? like you said, we all agree slipknot is nu metal, that's not the question. many say nu metal is a subgenre of metal, many say it isn't, so don't say i am the one who was to prove anything, is equal for both sides.

you still not aswering my question about meshuggah, why? because you can't. you don't know shit about music.

and of course, the cliche when there's no arguments, call the other people stupid. how cool is that?

Yes, but you have to give the proof that it is metal, until you do that it's not considered metal.

What question about Meshuggah?

I call you stupid, because you keep missunderstanding.

 

[Zhou Tai 04]

Here's a question: Why the fuck would someone who is supposedly so much more knowledgeable than everyone else about metal only post in a Slipknot thread?

 

[Neurotic]

Yes, but you have to give the proof that it is metal, until you do that it's not considered metal.

What question about Meshuggah?

I call you stupid, because you keep missunderstanding.

why are meshuggah prog death metal? i asked you that more than once.
there must be a reason.

you said spiral architect is not a tech band. there must be a reason why you think that but you don't give any. you don't give reasons to anything.

you said that slipknot is nu metal and you don't give me any proof that it is. you just assume they are. like someone else said, prove me that vader is metal. your response will be that they are metal and everybody knows that, but you can't point out why they are metal.

there are caracteristics that make the "metal sound", by analising the sound of a band and seeing if that band has those caracteristics is the way to reach a conclusion if it's metal or not.

i've give enough reasons why i think slipknot is metal, if you don't agree that's your problem. some people agree with me, some people don't, it's the eternal debate.

 

[TylerTheNuke]

lol. Metal is a vast genre. Metal is understood to incorporate all of the subgenres. I mean, when metallica came out, it could have been argued that they weren't metal. What the hell did this thrash metal have to do with metal? It was obviously mixed with punk, therefore not pure. Wheres the falsetto gone to? Not only that, but it lacked the straightforwardness and simplicity of early heavy metal. Obviously, nobody in their right minds would say that metallica isn't metal. As metal gets older, it grows. The fact is that there is no such thing as characteristics that define metal. Metal is an essence. It is defined not by whether the guitar player plays this or that, but rather by the aesthetics and the emotions it invokes. This is the reason people listen to metal, not because of tremolo picking and blastbeats. This is why people classify things. They want music that is like this, so they classify bands that are like this together. It is a question of essence, not a tally of how many traits that they have. I only heard the debut once, but it was definatly metal. Do people headbang to it? Yes. To people get drunk and thrash to it? Yes. Do people associate it with satan and anger? Yes. Does slipknot have influence from undisputably metal bands? Yes.

 

[TylerTheNuke]

Here's a question: Why the fuck would someone who is supposedly so much more knowledgeable than everyone else about metal only post in a Slipknot thread?

!

Ouch