slipknot?

[TylerTheNuke]

Well, I guess my viewpoint is outspoken. I do believe that you can make a more metal album with less metal characteristics. Basically, why does something have to have characteristics to be metal. I know that this is redundent, repeating previous posts, but the characteristics are basically a way to arrive at an essence right? Someone who doesn't know the characteristics of metal can still identify the sound of metal. Only musicians and musically inclined non musicians will know the characteristics of metal. But, from a theory standpoint, there are multiple ways to arrive at a sound/essence, so these are rather the common characteristics of metal, not the defining characteristics. The defining characteristic is the overall sound.

 

[Neurotic]

the overall sound is based on those characteristics.
even if someone pick a guitar without knowing nothing about music theory, and write lots of riffs, they will be using those characteristics without even knowing it.
this actually happened to me.

when you learn a bit of theory you realize what you were doing and that it's very common in metal.(if you're playing metal of course.)

 

[Astrum]

so many people hate them and say they are not metal. but i actually like them, and i dont understand how they are not metal? what would you consider them then? and why?

please forgive this post. I still stick to my opinions about their genre status, but after further review, slipknot sucks. But we all knew that.

 

[SweptbackFlame]

You're an idiot. Perhaps I should also prove to you why Judas Priest is metal? Do you seriously not see the difference between a nu-metal band and a real metal band?

Yes there's a difference between the 2 but just because you think Slipknot isn't metal is just fucking lame...Yes they are Nu-Metal...

Note: Note the word Metal...in "Nu-Metal", and there is no such fucking thing as real metal you fucking idiot, You only call them real metal bands because you fucking like them...

"Oh I like this band, Im gonna label them as real fucking metal"

Like honestly shut the fuck up

 

[LORDEJAILBAIT]

Nu-Metal/Hard Rock

EDIT: More like Slapknut.

Or Shitknot, Shittwat, Slipsnot, etc.

Love the Hammerfall sig btw.

 

[TylerTheNuke]

the overall sound is based on those characteristics.
even if someone pick a guitar without knowing nothing about music theory, and write lots of riffs, they will be using those characteristics without even knowing it.
this actually happened to me.

when you learn a bit of theory you realize what you were doing and that it's very common in metal.(if you're playing metal of course.)

Heh, we're both just repeating ourselves now. I really think that it comes down to the question of defining characteristics, as oppossed to characteristics that bands use in general. So, lets say einstien or bach or some genius picked up a guitar and started playing heavy metal. Except, they saw all of the boring cliches and were sickened by them. So, they release a completly revolutionary album that uses 1/3 of the characteristics of metal. However, it is heavy as fuck, and you headbang to it, get drunk, thrash, turn it up to max and blast your way through town, send conservitive fundamentalists screaming, get satanically possessed, ect. Is it metal or not?

 

[Satanstoenail]

Yes it would be metal if it had 1/3 metal characteristics in the music. All those other things you mentioned have nothing to do with whether a band is metal or not. I could do all those things to a heavy dark electronica album (except maybe get satanically possessed, but I never got satanically possessed to metal anyway lol).

 

[Neurotic]

Classical Composers have written music that i headbang to.
the rite of spring, mars bringer of war, the miraculous mandarin, etc etc
it can get more heavy than metal really and it's not metal.
but if some parts of it were played with guitars it would be.

the thing is metal takes a lot from classical music as well, that's one influence that's present on many metal bands, be it classical(the period) on power metal bands, be it modern on death metal bands,etc etc

that was offtopic but....

to sound heavy you will always use some tecniques common in metal, there's not much around it. even those classical pieces i mentioned use syncopated rhythms played in unison for instance.

and like Satanstoenail said, it will still have caracteristics of metal.

 

[TylerTheNuke]

hmmm, this seems like a completly stalled argument. But there is definatly an essence to metal. I am using iseas like headbanging and stuff to try to express this. Obviously that doesn't define. Metal is almost like a mood. Thats not quite it, but no, I am not defining metal as headbang get drunk thrash satan ect. Its obvious you know what I mean, or else you wouldn't listen to metal. You don't listen to it because analyzing the characteristics gives you a hard on. You listen to it because it evokes something within you. If it doesn't evoke that thing, then it isn't metal. No matter how many characteristics it has.

Yeah, I know classical music can be pretty heavy. I still don't headbang, but like the rite of spring, thats pretty intense.

For something to sound like metal, it has to have characteristics like metal. The key word is like. There is no limit but imagination on how to achieve that sound.

 

[ohiogrinder]

any band that uses whiny nu-metal singing in their music automatically sucks.

 

[Neurotic]

hmmm, this seems like a completly stalled argument. But there is definatly an essence to metal. I am using iseas like headbanging and stuff to try to express this. Obviously that doesn't define. Metal is almost like a mood. Thats not quite it, but no, I am not defining metal as headbang get drunk thrash satan ect. Its obvious you know what I mean, or else you wouldn't listen to metal. You don't listen to it because analyzing the characteristics gives you a hard on. You listen to it because it evokes something within you. If it doesn't evoke that thing, then it isn't metal. No matter how many characteristics it has.

Yeah, I know classical music can be pretty heavy. I still don't headbang, but like the rite of spring, thats pretty intense.

For something to sound like metal, it has to have characteristics like metal. The key word is like. There is no limit but imagination on how to achieve that sound.

i know what you saying, i'm just saying there's ways to achieve that metal mood and the characteristics are there, you might add a million things to it but it has to have that connection or else it would sound like something that is not metal.

i listen to metal if i like the sound of the band like in any other genre.
but i can't listen to a bunch of cliche metal riffs just because they are sooo metal.

to me there's good music and bad music and that's it.

 

[lad]

I think they've released some decent music, regardless of all the controversy they stir. Sure, they're image is quite silly, and at least 2 of their members are completely superfluous, but a few of them are fairly accomplished musicians. As for all this debate about guitar playing (I've not read through it) - Mick and Jim (particularly the former) can play their arses off, whether people like it or not. Anyway, I don't really care if it makes me or the next person an ''untr00 fallse metillr tht dsnt worship teh necrokvlt!!!!1!11!!11'' for enjoying what's considered ''false'' just as much as I enjoy what's considered ''tr00''. Calling this band ''Nu Metal'' is fine, just seems a little redundant and vague as that isn't the complete aesthetic to their sound.

 

[TylerTheNuke]

i know what you saying, i'm just saying there's ways to achieve that metal mood and the characteristics are there, you might add a million things to it but it has to have that connection or else it would sound like something that is not metal.

i listen to metal if i like the sound of the band like in any other genre.
but i can't listen to a bunch of cliche metal riffs just because they are sooo metal.

to me there's good music and bad music and that's it.

I guess you are saying that if you don't have the some of the characteristics, you can't achieve the mood, and I am saying that with an infinite meduim such as noise, there's bound to be an infinite number of ways to achieve the mood. Does this sum up our viewpoints? If it does, then this is a purely hypothetical argument because you can't prove it either way, you can only specutale as to whether it is possible to make metal with different ingrediants. Metal as we know it follows a recipie. The question is whether you can substitute the ingrediants. And yeah, I agree with your two latter paragraphs.

 

[SweptbackFlame]

I know alot ppl say that Slipknot sucks, but there was a time in your life that you listened to them, before you grew onto the heavyer and more melodic stuff right?

 

[Hatebreeder]

any band that uses whiny nu-metal singing in their music automatically sucks.

I like Corey Taylor's voice more than Jonathan Davis, Chester Bennington, or any of those lame new-hardcore/metalcore vocalists.

 

[Neurotic]

I guess you are saying that if you don't have the some of the characteristics, you can't achieve the mood, and I am saying that with an infinite meduim such as noise, there's bound to be an infinite number of ways to achieve the mood. Does this sum up our viewpoints? If it does, then this is a purely hypothetical argument because you can't prove it either way, you can only specutale as to whether it is possible to make metal with different ingrediants. Metal as we know it follows a recipie. The question is whether you can substitute the ingrediants. And yeah, I agree with your two latter paragraphs.

Yes metal follows a recipie.
And yes you can achieve the metal mood with, there are Noise bands that are quite heavy and evil souding, the problem is since they don't have those metal caracteristics people label them diferently.
Like i said i listen to a lot of classical, and in many pieces i feel like i'm listening to metal because of the dark evil mood, the intensity, etc..but it's not metal.

 

[TylerTheNuke]

Yes metal follows a recipie.
And yes you can achieve the metal mood with, there are Noise bands that are quite heavy and evil souding, the problem is since they don't have those metal caracteristics people label them diferently.
Like i said i listen to a lot of classical, and in many pieces i feel like i'm listening to metal because of the dark evil mood, the intensity, etc..but it's not metal.

Ah, so metal =/= metal mood? I guess that makes sense in a way. Of course I still disagree, and people be damned, I'll label them by what they sound like. I never feel that specific metal mood listening to classical, but if I did, I would call it metal. And this argument has gone around in circles and circles. We should probably call it quits. Although if you wan't to keep going, I'm game.

 

[Hell Awaits Us All]

What seperates a band like Death from a band like Slipknot? Do you really think the guitarists for Death are that much more talented that those in Slipknot? I am no lover of Slipknot but, I certainly am not a "hater"

wow what the FUCK??

how fucking DARE YOU DISGRACE THE NAME OF CHUCK SCHULDINER BY INCLUDING THE NAME OF HIS BAND IN THE SAME PARAGRAPH AS THE SHITHEADS IN SLIPKNOT??

chuck had more talent in his left pinky that every member of slipknot combined x 50

 

[TylerTheNuke]

wow what the FUCK??

how fucking DARE YOU DISGRACE THE NAME OF CHUCK SCHULDINER BY INCLUDING THE NAME OF HIS BAND IN THE SAME PARAGRAPH AS THE SHITHEADS IN SLIPKNOT??

chuck had more talent in his left pinky that every member of slipknot combined x 50

Wait, how much can a left pinky have anyways? Is that even possible?

 

[Hatebreeder]

Wait, how much can a left pinky have anyways? Is that even possible?

Without a left pinky, shredding is that much harder. :Smug:

And to answer that other guy's question, songwriting, lyricism, a musical ear, talent, and inspiration is what separates Death from Slipknot. Death is WAAAAAAY more cohesive and well-written than Slipknot.