no country for old wainds
Active Member
- Nov 23, 2002
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Themed Mixtape Game Mk. 2
- Thread starter Vegard Pompey
- Start date
no country for old wainds
Active Member
- Nov 23, 2002
- 26,681
- 9,655
- 113
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
EspaDa
Damage Case
I have totally mixed feelings about Peste Noire. I love some of their tracks, but I am aware of the convictions and beliefs of that guy. He has reiterated a couple of times he's a fascist and not a nazi, which is somehow a contradiction to me. So it's a very difficult case for me - the music is oftentimes incredible, but the guy is such an utter dimwit that it's barely conceivable. There are many bands I love whose members are dolts, Shining being a shining (hehe) example here. So I have a problem with Peste Noire. I wouldn't call myself a fan; I don't listen to them regularly, but I fucking love some tracks off their newest LP and the album La chaise-dyable. He's a damn fascist and he recorded a couple of albums in exile in Ukraine with the guys who are now fighting off the fascist Russian regime of Putin - a pretty contradiction, huh?
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
I had read Vegard Pompey's comment about this song as well as the description on Metal Archives before my rating and thought about either not rating this song at all or go with 0/10. Since the lyrics of this specific song were just about the subject of war, I rated it just as any other song in this game. If I had actually liked the music very much, I still wouldn't listen to a band like this outside of this game, though. BTW, even without the vocals dragging this song down for me, the music itself wasn't good enough for me to ever listen to this song again.
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
I just don't give a shit about this sort of thing at all. Is the music good? Yes? Then fuckibg listen to it.
SonOfNun
Bill Ward's Red Pants
I'll try to knock it out tonight.
SonOfNun
Bill Ward's Red Pants
A lot of metalheads will cry about anything remotely conservative, nationalistic, or right-wing (especially if teh racisms) but are totally fine with leftist, commie shit, necrophilia, babies getting chopped up, rape, blaspheming literally every god and religion and calling for the deaths of their followers (though mostly Christians), etc. I guess we all have our limits and want our biases confirmed but I think it's funny that people who are often atheists set such religious limits on their content.
I already got banned from M-A forums for calling them on this bullshit
I already got banned from M-A forums for calling them on this bullshit
SonOfNun
Bill Ward's Red Pants
Why not? Your ratings are already arbitrary and ridiculous. "This has extreme metal vocals: 1/10."
Why not take the extra step and go after ideology too? I'm gonna start doing that. "This band has 666 in their name: 0/10."
SonOfNun
Bill Ward's Red Pants
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
Hahahahaha man I still haven't seen that episode but I've watched that scene so many times!
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
no rush man. I think I might just go ahead and go through it again tonight so I can properly rate them.
You wouldn't have called my ratings "arbitrary and ridiculous", if I only disliked stuff you also dislike. You are just pissed off because I don't like something you like. The vocals are part of a song, thus if they go on my nerves, this will of course show in my rating. And you aren't seriously going to tell me that those who explicitly stated in the previous round how much they disliked the vocals of the song I submitted would have rated it exactly the same if they had liked the vocals. Personal taste is always arbitrary. If you think your ratings are based on strictly objective criteria, I'm curious to hear what these criteria are.
Just because something is still acceptable for one person doesn't mean it has to be acceptable for everyone else.
SonOfNun
Bill Ward's Red Pants
No, it's objectively ridiculous. Your boomer hate for extreme vocals leads you to unreasonably tank the scores of songs that are well regarded (or even legendary) for their subgenre. It literally does not matter how well performed the song is for the subgenre - if it's Extreme Metal you're ready to slap a 3/10 or lower on it for no other reason. I don't really like Power or Progressive or experimental stuff and I'm lukewarm about other stuff like Thrash but I'm not gonna just tank EVERY SONG NOMINATED from those ENTIRE GENRES EVERY.SINGLE.TIME.
Clearly you didn't get my point. I could 0/10 every song that is satanic or leftist or whatever but I realize how absolutely RIDICULOUS it would be to do that. If you feel you can't rate a song fairly on it's musical merits because of the beliefs of the members then abstain. I just thought that quote revealed a lot about how you approach this exercise which I find both arbitrary and ridiculous because you 1. purposely tank any song from a genre you dislike and 2. seriously consider giving a song a 0 because you don't like the artist's beliefs.
SonOfNun
Bill Ward's Red Pants
Exmortus - Foe Hammer - 7/10
I enjoyed the musicianship on this one. It's riffy and well done. I don't think it would have much staying power because it's got that sort of polished melodeath sound that is immediately engaging and then fades into irrelevance.
Arghoslent - The Grenadier - 8.5/10
It's no Flogging the Cargo. Arghoslent rules hard but this album is lacking something that Incorrigible Bigotry had. I think the production is less clear and crisp, but the songwriting is also not quite as epic. Still great though and these dudes are still riffmasters.
Necrot - The Blade - 8.5/10
This is pretty solid musically. Really great riff and a nice old school formula. Runs a bit long and the vocals are a bit low in the mix.
Smoulder - Bastard Steel - 8/10
I don't care for female vocals at all but this just destroys musically. Great trad metal.
The Crown - Blitzkrieg Witchcraft - 5/10
Meh, this reminds me of Soilwork or something that I listened to 20 years ago and just don't care about anymore. It's much more polished and formulaic than the Exmortus track and much less interesting. Sterile.
Amulet - Siege Machine - 7/10
I would prefer a little more aggression, especially in the vocal department, to drive this home but I think they're channeling Iron Maiden here and it's fine but a little less interesting than the Smoulder song.
Wehrmacht - Napalm Shower - 6/10
A little chaotic with vocals on the weaker side but a nice section in the middle and powerful drumming. Not bad, but not a big impact.
The Accused - Bullet-Ridden Bodies - 6/10
This is alright for what it is. The crossover sound can go either way for me. This is a bit too punky but there are undeniably sweet thrash riffs in here.
Heathen - Goblin's Blade - 8.5/10
Interesting speed/thrash stuff with the epicness of trad metal. I think it would get better with further listens.
Shackles - Cat o' Nine Tails - 7.5/10
This definitely sounds Australian. I get the vibes of a rough D666 early on but yeah that lead in the middle feels like the desert. A lot going on here and a weird atmosphere but I can appreciate it even if it's not kicking my ass.
Avenger - Warrior Path - 9/10
So, we did get a Manowar song after all.
I like Daniel Heiman's vocals since I heard him with Harmony:
Ice Nine Kills - Stabbing in the Dark - 2/10
This is just bad all-around. Reminds me of the nu-metal days of all style and no substance. Mix some angry emo stuff with catchy clean singing and sell to teenagers.
Razor - Brass Knuckles - 5/10
Razor is pretty cool and all, but this song kinda sucks.
Eternal Champion - I Am the Hammer - 8/10
Overly long intro but then starts to kick ass. Great riffs and vocals even if those "ahs" remind me of Disturbed a bit.
Bolt Thrower - The Killchain - 9/10
One of the great Bolt Thrower songs.
This playlist was definitely better than the first one.
I enjoyed the musicianship on this one. It's riffy and well done. I don't think it would have much staying power because it's got that sort of polished melodeath sound that is immediately engaging and then fades into irrelevance.
Arghoslent - The Grenadier - 8.5/10
It's no Flogging the Cargo. Arghoslent rules hard but this album is lacking something that Incorrigible Bigotry had. I think the production is less clear and crisp, but the songwriting is also not quite as epic. Still great though and these dudes are still riffmasters.
Necrot - The Blade - 8.5/10
This is pretty solid musically. Really great riff and a nice old school formula. Runs a bit long and the vocals are a bit low in the mix.
Smoulder - Bastard Steel - 8/10
I don't care for female vocals at all but this just destroys musically. Great trad metal.
The Crown - Blitzkrieg Witchcraft - 5/10
Meh, this reminds me of Soilwork or something that I listened to 20 years ago and just don't care about anymore. It's much more polished and formulaic than the Exmortus track and much less interesting. Sterile.
Amulet - Siege Machine - 7/10
I would prefer a little more aggression, especially in the vocal department, to drive this home but I think they're channeling Iron Maiden here and it's fine but a little less interesting than the Smoulder song.
Wehrmacht - Napalm Shower - 6/10
A little chaotic with vocals on the weaker side but a nice section in the middle and powerful drumming. Not bad, but not a big impact.
The Accused - Bullet-Ridden Bodies - 6/10
This is alright for what it is. The crossover sound can go either way for me. This is a bit too punky but there are undeniably sweet thrash riffs in here.
Heathen - Goblin's Blade - 8.5/10
Interesting speed/thrash stuff with the epicness of trad metal. I think it would get better with further listens.
Shackles - Cat o' Nine Tails - 7.5/10
This definitely sounds Australian. I get the vibes of a rough D666 early on but yeah that lead in the middle feels like the desert. A lot going on here and a weird atmosphere but I can appreciate it even if it's not kicking my ass.
Avenger - Warrior Path - 9/10
So, we did get a Manowar song after all.
I like Daniel Heiman's vocals since I heard him with Harmony:
Ice Nine Kills - Stabbing in the Dark - 2/10
This is just bad all-around. Reminds me of the nu-metal days of all style and no substance. Mix some angry emo stuff with catchy clean singing and sell to teenagers.
Razor - Brass Knuckles - 5/10
Razor is pretty cool and all, but this song kinda sucks.
Eternal Champion - I Am the Hammer - 8/10
Overly long intro but then starts to kick ass. Great riffs and vocals even if those "ahs" remind me of Disturbed a bit.
Bolt Thrower - The Killchain - 9/10
One of the great Bolt Thrower songs.
This playlist was definitely better than the first one.
So what you are saying is that people should not be allowed to dislike songs and rate them accordingly, if said songs are "well regarded (or even legendary)" for their subgenre? Does that mean if 9 out of 10 fans of a specific genre think that a song of said genre is "legendary", I mustn't give it a low rating, but it would be OK, if - let's say - only 4 out of 10 fans thought it was "legendary"? And what would be the minimum rating I'd have to give a "legendary" song, even if I disliked it? What rating would you have given the song by Ice Nine Kills in this round or the song by Atrox in the previous round, if they were "well regarded/legendary" for their subgenre? Perhaps we should have a poll each round to determine how well regarded/legendary the songs submitted are, so everyone knows if it's OK to give a specific song a low rating or not.
If a song goes on my nerves - for whatever reason - so much that I'd immediately turn it off when I heard it on the radio, that's reason enough for me to give it a low rating.
What kind of genre would you label the song by Atheist in the previous round then? How many Power/Progressive/experimental stuff and Metalcore bands do you like? How many bands featuring female opera-vocals do you like?
That's what I might have done. The mere fact that I mentioned this only as one of two options doesn't mean I had already decided against it.
If I "tank" a song, it's because it goes on my nerves - whether it's because of the music or the vocals or both. If this qualifies as "purposely" in your book, so be it. By the way, as long as we haven't had all songs from the genres you have in mind in this game, your statement remains an unproved assertion.
SonOfNun
Bill Ward's Red Pants
The whole point of mentioning bands being well-regarded in their subgenre is to reinforce how arbitrary and ridiculous your ratings are when you automatically give them a 1-3/10 because "I don't like the vocals." Well, those vocals are an intrinsic part of the subgenre so you're going to tank a song simply for being Death Metal. I think that's stupid. I generally hate female vocals but I gave the Smoulder song an 8/10 because the music is great. I generally think that Power Metal type vocals can be pretty gay but I still gave the Amulet song a 7/10. Imagine that? I even gave a trad metal song my highest rating in the round over types of music I enjoy more because I thought the song was great. I rated Atrox and Ice Nine Kills poorly because the total package is absolute shit. If you'll notice, I commented on the music on Atrox as well. Just because I didn't like that shitshow doesn't mean I'm gonna tank every progressive band that gets nominated, but you sure as hell will tank every Death Metal band (and not because of an overall consideration - but because vocals). Also, let's not pretend that whatever the hell the vocals on Atrox are are representative of an entire genre but Karl Willets's sure as hell are and you tanked them anyway. That's indicative of the difference here.
You are, of course, free to vote in an arbitrary and ridiculous fashion but it makes your participation in the game pretty meaningless and generally distorts the outcome. I would imagine that a reasonable person would see the purpose of this exercise as a way to engage with new music, particularly music from other subgenres that you might not normally seek out on your own. If you really wanted to do something constructive you would try to engage that music in the proper context and judge it according to the standards of its own subgenre. Of course this allows some room for your own preferences. You don't have to give a Death Metal song a 8 or 9 out of 10 just because it's good Death Metal, but giving it a 3 just because it's Death Metal is, indeed, ridiculous. I think that's a pretty simple point no matter how much you obfuscate it and if you don't agree, feel free to carry on doing what you do.
You are, of course, free to vote in an arbitrary and ridiculous fashion but it makes your participation in the game pretty meaningless and generally distorts the outcome. I would imagine that a reasonable person would see the purpose of this exercise as a way to engage with new music, particularly music from other subgenres that you might not normally seek out on your own. If you really wanted to do something constructive you would try to engage that music in the proper context and judge it according to the standards of its own subgenre. Of course this allows some room for your own preferences. You don't have to give a Death Metal song a 8 or 9 out of 10 just because it's good Death Metal, but giving it a 3 just because it's Death Metal is, indeed, ridiculous. I think that's a pretty simple point no matter how much you obfuscate it and if you don't agree, feel free to carry on doing what you do.
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